Government Operations committee  Yes, we note in our report that the type 31e is the smallest and doesn't have the same kind of capability as other ships. That being said, the FREMM and the type 2 ship aren't identical, but they provide roughly similar capabilities. France and Italy, in particular, will be using them as their main frigates.

Government Operations committee  A program of the magnitude that the Royal Canadian Navy wants to undertake—the construction of surface combatants—certainly requires a great deal of expertise. However, if it's a priority for National Defence, Public Services and Procurement Canada, and the government, there is a way to allocate sufficient resources to ensure the success of this project.

Government Operations committee  We estimated the costs required to build the shipyards so that the ships could have the necessary infrastructure. However, the costs of operating the surface combatant fleet haven't been considered. If, for example, the Royal Canadian Navy needs to build additional, deeper or larger docks in Halifax or Esquimalt, that hasn't been taken into account, to my knowledge.

Government Operations committee  We did what's called a sensitivity analysis to see how different scenarios would affect the cost estimates. We came to the conclusion that one year of delay would cost $2.3 billion. If there were a two-year delay, it would cost an additional $4.8 billion. This is due to the fact that costs are being pushed over a total horizon of about 20 years.

Government Operations committee  It would be the total costs. It's due to inflation, because it's a program that's going to take 25 or 30 years. If there's a one-year delay, then overall spending is deferred and inflation has a compounding effect on the duration of the program. As a result, total costs would be $2.3 billion more for a single year of delay.

Government Operations committee  First, I can say that provincial taxes aren't included in the DND estimates. Beyond that, it's difficult to determine what DND doesn't include in its estimates, because we haven't had access to its costing model. We've obviously asked for a lot of information to come up with our own cost estimates, and we've received most of that information.

Government Operations committee  The most recent estimates from National Defence, putting the costs at about $56 billion to $60 billion, are from 2017. You might think that these estimates are a bit out of date, but a few days ago, National Defence reaffirmed that it's certain that the estimated costs of $56 billion to $60 billion from four years ago are still valid today.

Government Operations committee  Thank you, Mr. Chair. It's our pleasure. Good afternoon, Mr. Chair and members of the committee. Thank you for the invitation to appear before you today. We are pleased to be here today to present the findings of our report entitled, “The Cost of Canada's Surface Combatants: 2021 Update and Options Analysis,” which we were honoured to prepare at the request of this committee.

Human Resources committee  Thank you.

Human Resources committee  Sure. We always strive to provide information as fast as possible, but we'll put extra attention to your committee. I would say, Mr. Chair, that's what happens when you save the best for last.

Human Resources committee  It depends by jurisdiction. It depends where you are in the country. There are some areas that have lower costs, obviously, and areas where the cost is much higher. I think we have that as well. I can tell you for sure that in the north it's always a bit more expensive because of the short construction season and the cost to get materials up north.

Human Resources committee  We can probably derive that. When we say there's about 124,000 households that are in housing need, that's probably about what we'd need to build to solve the housing needs of the indigenous population. That, of course, would have to take into account the demographic increases of that fast-growing population.

Human Resources committee  This $636 million would bridge the affordability gap, but it would not bridge the suitable shelter gap. There would still be households that would be in inappropriate housing— too small, too decrepit for their needs, or too decrepit, period. At least they wouldn't pay exorbitant prices, or they wouldn't pay more than they could afford using CMHC's definition of affordability.

Human Resources committee  To give you a total since 2015, we'll probably have to get back to you with a precise number as well.

Human Resources committee  No. We have an estimate of the cost of building a unit. With regard to retrofitting or renovating, the cost would depend on the extent of the damage and the extent to which we want to retrofit to current standards or to go beyond those. I don't think that's data that we have, but we have the cost to build from scratch, on average.