International Trade committee  Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. I welcome this opportunity to appear before your committee. I apologize that we have no written brief. Something fell between the cracks and we were not aware until Monday morning that a presentation was asked for. I was sitting happily by the

International Trade committee  If I could add one thing, though, we believe quite a number of contracts were signed before it was eliminated, and those ships have yet to be built.

International Trade committee  Let me agree with you. We think the Buy Canada policy is very good, and there are a lot of programs coming up that have been a long time in coming. That has been the problem. There is the structured financing facility, where you can actually get a financial buy-down of almost up

International Trade committee  No. To the best of my knowledge, Norway phased out its shipbuilding subsidy policy over a number of years and it's now finished.

International Trade committee  I'll talk for the association. I'm forever talking. I think we've been talking about it for six years, and we've made various presentations, quite a number. I've been at them all--I can't remember how many. I've been to at least a dozen, I would think.

International Trade committee  There is no question that what you say is basically correct. I think I said in response to the previous question that there has been extensive discussions between the government negotiating team and the Shipbuilding Association, and I've attended every single one of them. We were

International Trade committee  They have been to the bureaucrats who are dealing with it. And you know, that's one drawback. Every couple of years the people change. You find that you're talking to new people, and you have to re-educate them.

International Trade committee  No, there are a few people who are not in it. The major shipyards are in it. Port Weller was out while it was under bankruptcy and so was Davie. Port Weller is back in and Davie have told us they are coming back in. Shipyards are distinct from small boat builders. On the major

International Trade committee  Absolutely. That's been our point all along. We said, even if we get our 15-year phase-out and nothing else happens, that's going to be...I think your colleague said death by a thousand cuts. It will be the same thing. The industry will carry on. You won't have the capability to

International Trade committee  Yes, that's quite correct, and I think we go through the same scrutiny by the WTO. But we're always the boy scouts in the world. We appear to take everything to heart and play everything by the rules. I'm not saying you shouldn't play by the rules, but when some other countries b

International Trade committee  We welcome the Davie's new buyer. It's a big shipyard. If it survives, it will be the biggest shipyard in the country. We closed Saint John Shipbuilding through lack of work after the frigate program. There was no continuity. You needed about $300 million a year in that facility.

International Trade committee  Absolutely, yes.

International Trade committee  Could I add? In fairness to the bureaucrats, they cannot promise the Government of Canada is going to implement that program. They said they heard us, but they don't sit down and tell us they will ensure we'll get that. So we feel it's a broken promise, but we have to be fair t

International Trade committee  It's quite difficult for any member of the association to say you should not sign the agreement. If it's good for Canada, that's great. But as my friend here said, we have asked many, many times, what's in it for Canada? I remember that we asked at a meeting in Halifax, and she

International Trade committee  Let me go into the other parts of your question. What would we prefer? If it's a benefit to Canada, the agreement should probably go ahead. Would we like it to go ahead as is? Absolutely not. We would like to see shipbuilding carved out, and in addition to the carve-out, perhaps