Transport committee  Yes. My name is Ron Smith. I'm with the Canadian Auto Workers' union in Canada. The CAW has over 256,000 members. In the aviation field, we have over 14,000. We represent aviation maintenance organizations from coast to coast in Canada. We represent airline transport pilots who

Transport committee  Sir, we're not principally opposed to SMS. We think there are some problems with the implementation, with the way it is running. I will give you a good example, sir, of where it has worked well. I come out of the air navigation system. I come from Transport Canada, and then Nav

Transport committee  So I'm not opposed to it, sir.

Transport committee  We see it, sir, as another level, as an addition.

Transport committee  But you shouldn't take out--

Transport committee  Exactly, and that's where I think it's falling down today.

Transport committee  Well, as has been said, we can't tell you. We're not the experts in saying how many inspectors are enough. That would be the minister's position--and the people working for the minister. Last night I listened to the audiotape of the hearing on Tuesday. I am extremely pleased th

Transport committee  It's a good start, sir. I can't tell you how many they would need. We don't deal with the day-to-day operation of Transport Canada and the inspections group there.

Transport committee  The capacity and the training required would be a time differential between the size of the business being regulated or using SMS. That's part of where the issue might come into play or does come into play--it's the training requirement.

Transport committee  Yes, with less capacity, or it actually might impede the operations. But in fact, at some carriers, even, it's that taking people out of the operational line, spending time educating them on this piece, and giving them the encouragement to take on and do what's required in SMS is

Transport committee  On the maintenance side of the house, there is still inspection. The issues, though, centre around the implementation and operation of a safety management system. For example, in one carrier, how many certified engineers can supervise how many non-certified engineers or apprentic

Transport committee  That's fairly correct, Mr. Volpe, but it is also that the regulator is not necessarily aware of what SMS reports have been filed. When they send in the report to the company, the company deals with it however it sees fit. It does not necessarily come back and tell the applicable

Transport committee  Yes, and when I ask my leadership people at these companies what they think, they say not to throw out SMS, but we need more oversight. It's exactly what they tell me.

Transport committee  That's pretty close to what I'm trying to say, Mr. Volpe.

Transport committee  Because there is no protection for the individual who reports an issue of an aircraft that has a problem being released for flight, let's say, an aircraft that should not be released but is released under pressure from the employer. The individuals are afraid that they will be se