Procedure and House Affairs committee  I would agree. Not only am I opposed to heckling, but I'm opposed to a lot of partisan game-playing. Parliament is partisan. It has to be, because you have the various political parties. When I was clerk of the legislative assembly, for example, as long as the House leader and the opposition leaders were working together, there was good debate and things were moving along.

Procedure and House Affairs committee  Thank you.

Procedure and House Affairs committee  I totally agree with the hybrid concept as well, and even under the current circumstances, heckling is not great. When Parliament resumes in the House of Commons I hope heckling will be reduced much more at that time. Thank you.

Procedure and House Affairs committee  As I was saying in my presentation, if you have the House meeting with 20 people, let's say, and physical distancing and an agreement as to which parties are there, it then calls into question a vote of no confidence. If you have the hybrid approach of members in the House as well as electronically, then the usual rules of confidence would apply.

Procedure and House Affairs committee  Mr. Tochor, I won't disagree with you. I'm not an expert on privilege either, like Gary just said about himself, but being a former speaker of the Saskatchewan legislature, I don't think your case would be a case of privilege, but certainly a frustration. Technology is improving and I think it will improve even more as they work out the bugs, and I'm sure from here on in you'll be much better able to connect.

Procedure and House Affairs committee  I would not want to see rules for going totally electronic or digital on a permanent basis. I think they're a good way of making sure that Parliament is able to meet during a pandemic, for example, but I'm hopeful that once a pandemic is over, Parliament would go back to its traditional way of meeting in person.

Procedure and House Affairs committee  I'm assuming that was directed to me, Mr. Turnbull. You're right. First off, I think that Parliament has a very long history, as Mr. O'Brien said, of some 800 years. It does have an image of being small-c conservative and slow to react to change in that sense. That's not a bad thing in many ways, to make sure there is consistency and that Parliament is not just reacting to a whim.

Procedure and House Affairs committee  Yes.

Procedure and House Affairs committee  Yes, I very much agree with you. For example, my wife and I have been practising that very much, in terms of social distancing and not going out any more than necessary, etc., but I would argue as well—

Procedure and House Affairs committee  Yes, I agree with Mr. O'Brien that we want to be careful on this. I like your idea of having two sets of standing orders, one for normal times and another for abnormal, because this COVID-19 is not going to be unique. I think we're going to have another one come at some time in the future.

Procedure and House Affairs committee  I'm not sure exactly what a trigger point would be. You're right. I think Parliament right now, government, is focused right on the pandemic, but I wouldn't want to see government focused on that solely, because the other issues in the country have to be addressed. I think we also have to make sure that you, as a member of Parliament, be it government or opposition, have to be in a position to be able to hold the government accountable.

Procedure and House Affairs committee  I don't mind jumping in. I think I understand what you're saying in terms of having a staggered approach, but I would argue in favour of having it all simultaneously. If you had 25 members physically in the House with distancing and the remainder, however many, online, I think that could work.

Procedure and House Affairs committee  Gary, I defer to you first, if you wish.

Procedure and House Affairs committee  My French has become rather rusty since I left Ottawa. If I understood you correctly in terms of balancing the electronic risks and the health risks of the pandemic, I think with appropriate physical distancing the House can meet with 20 or perhaps 30 people spread around. The risk isn't all that high and physical distancing should be practised, but to make sure a greater number of people can participate, I would weigh in on the side of virtual attendance by the other members.

Procedure and House Affairs committee  I would argue that privilege would apply, and I think this is what Mr. Maingot is arguing as well. Whether you're there in person or attending by Zoom, privilege would apply. If you're saying something on Zoom that could be considered unparliamentary, I think it is, whether you're there virtually or in person.