Canadian Heritage committee  One bee in my bonnet is the fact that technology and technology transfer in the economic history of the country has been underrated, and there are all sorts of examples of the things you were talking about. Railways are just one part of that particular story. There are mining, forestry, some of these major industries.

Canadian Heritage committee  I don't think I have too much to add to that. In connection with fair market value and evaluations, one of the difficulties that not only railway museums but technology museums in general have had is that the Canadian Cultural Property Secretariat and the Cultural Property Export Review Board don't have expertise in technology.

Canadian Heritage committee  What has happened to MAP?

Canadian Heritage committee  Millions?

Canadian Heritage committee  Well, that I wasn't aware of.

Canadian Heritage committee  One of the problems with a government department, of course, is that any funds unspent at the end of the year lapse. That's not the case with an organization like the Canada Council. They have that flexibility if there is some delay. They can accommodate it. For one thing, they like to rotate the program officers in the Canada Council among the field.

Canadian Heritage committee  I wrote just about the same thing in my brief. Financing should be on a shared basis. That is generally the case in visual arts and performing arts throughout Canada. We recommend the same thing for museums.

Canadian Heritage committee  It is interesting in this connection. Certainly in 1987, when this whole issue came up with the restructuring of the National Museums of Canada, the issue came up as to whether or not it would be better as an arm's-length agency or in the hands of a government department under the control of a minister.

Canadian Heritage committee  The answer to that question might be found in the reasons why the federal government did not do much for museums during that period of time. We can always take the case of performing arts, where many innovations and performances have gone a bit over the edge. If, some way or other, a province does not support a given performance or event, and a government of another stripe at another level still believes it is important to promote it, it could always be done.

Canadian Heritage committee  It could always happen. Decisions concerning the allocation of government funds to various agencies belong to Parliament and, by extension, to the government. There is always a risk, but are there other possibilities or--

Canadian Heritage committee  When I made that comment, I wasn't specifically referring to railway museums. The reason I think--I'm not alone on this--museums should have the same kind of arm's-length relationship that the visual arts and the performing arts have is that museums can be very controversial. Art galleries and fine art museums have frequently been controversial with respect to some of their purchases.

Canadian Heritage committee  Like the others, I certainly appreciate the opportunity of being here. I might remark that this is the first time I've addressed a parliamentary committee, other than as a public servant. I'll provide a little background about myself. Mr. Johnson referred to volunteers. My involvement with museums in general and railway museums in particular began when I was a teenager in Montreal fifty years ago, at what has since become Exporail, the Canadian Railway Museum.