Justice committee  The minister was inviting what would virtually be a free vote, wasn't he? As I understood the minister, I thought he invited the committee to do what they thought was appropriate.

Justice committee  I wouldn't say so, Mr. Chair. I don't think it's an attack on the judiciary. The judiciary are much more sensitive about these things than I am, so I don't know what the judiciary would think, but I wouldn't see it that way.

Justice committee  First of all, the statistics that are referred to are statistics from 2000 and are not available to us. But there's no doubt that it has been the case for many years that there are many more applicants for judicial office than there are judicial offices. The question is, what is the appropriate level of compensation, and what do you do to ensure that the best and the brightest are in the pool from which candidates can be selected?

Justice committee  Of course, the minister's statistics are from 2006. I don't know what they were when this committee was sitting, but we obviously didn't have 2006 numbers. It's just one of the factors in arriving at a number, but it's not the factor. With respect, if you're hunting for the new president of Canada Post, you don't put the job up for bid and describe its marvellous pension and the corporate jet and ask people to bid for it.

Justice committee  Certainly not, and that's not what I've suggested.

Justice committee  Yes. Certainly there's no suggestion that corruption starts around the $220,000-a-year level. At either level, they're not likely to be corrupted. But I'm talking philosophically. Why does our Constitution establish that Parliament sets the salary of judges? Judges are the third arm of the government and they have to be independent.

Justice committee  In a word, yes.

Justice committee  In a word, when we talk about judicial independence and money, the money doesn't buy integrity; the money insulates judges in part from the temptations of corruption, bribery, or whatever. To some degree, it insulates them, because they don't have to make their daily bread. Their pension insulates them from a concern about what happens when they quit.

Justice committee  Yes, I would say so.

Justice committee  Compensation. Yes, sir.

Justice committee  Oh, yes. Sure.

Justice committee  That's a legal question that may well have to be addressed if the judges don't agree with what eventually occurs here. Presumably, if they don't, or if they feel strongly enough about it, they will attack the second government's response on the basis that it doesn't qualify with the three tests that you've referred to, Mr.

Justice committee  No.

Justice committee  What I'd like to say at the outset, Mr. Chair and members of the committee, is what our process was. It's outlined at page 3 of the report, but I want to be clear that this was never a fight between the people on the commission. That is, notwithstanding that Mr. Cherniak was appointed by the judges and Ms.

Justice committee  We come here today not to extol our report, but to lament the process that has been followed or, properly, not followed. I think it's appropriate to recall the sorry history of why the legislation creating this commission developed. It's outlined in the Drouin report, the report of the first quadrennial commission.