Natural Resources committee  In terms of the question of reclamation, we don't share the same optimism that some of the industry has given to that. There hasn't been the widespread reclamation that would actually demonstrate that they can successfully put back diverse boreal systems. In particular, once both ground water and surface water is moving through these reclaimed areas where you're incorporating tailings material into that landscape, there is the potential liberation of various toxins, etc.

Natural Resources committee  I wouldn't disagree with anything that Pierre said. I would like to acknowledge your point that Canada is lagging behind, and I think it is something Canadians should be concerned with, given that there seems to be an international acknowledgement that we're headed towards a carbon-constrained future.

Natural Resources committee  I think it's somewhat of a nuanced point in terms of how one goes about defining a subsidy. It's been very clearly demonstrated that the accelerated capital cost allowance that is afforded to the oil sands sector is a preferential form of fiscal treatment relative to the broader energy sector, including their peers in the conventional oil and gas industry.

Natural Resources committee  Yes. I don't dispute that, and I don't want to belabour the differences we may have in terms of how one defines a subsidy or uses that term. I think the key point we'd like to make is that it is a form of preferential treatment. We don't dispute that perhaps when it was established it was appropriate for the oil sands industry, given the economic benefit that does flow from oil sands.

Natural Resources committee  There is the Pembina Foundation, which is a charitable organization, and the Pembina Institute. Donations to the foundation are charitable.

Natural Resources committee  We're somewhat of a unique organization within the environmental community, in that we draw our funding from a variety of sources. One of the things we initiated back when the organization was first established was actually undertaking fee-for-service consulting work, whether with government or with the oil and gas industry.

Natural Resources committee  It's difficult to comment on the ratio of profits to investment in research and development, particularly on environmental technologies, since we don't know exactly how much is going towards environmental technologies. What I will say about investment in research and development is that it is, of course, right now being directed not only at improving environmental performance, but there also has to be a cost payout.

Natural Resources committee  The approach we've taken, I suppose, is one that is relatively pragmatic. It recognizes that we're dealing with a global commodity. We're dealing with something in which there's a significant amount of investment inertia. We're dealing with something that has the potential to create a lot of economic benefit, both within the private and the public sector.

Natural Resources committee  Is there a link between sustainable development and fiscal policy? Absolutely. I think if we are going to marry notions of economic prosperity with environmental conservation and social well-being, there are going to be linkages that run amongst all of those. In terms of the federal government, how it manages both its taxation as well as the incentives it provides for research and development play a fundamental role in terms of how we shift our economy, through both incentives and disincentives, away from some of the things like fossil fuel development that have significant environmental and social and economic challenges towards more sustainable forms of energy production and consumption.

Natural Resources committee  At a minimum, I think there needs to be consistency in having a federal role in the environmental assessment process. There's a harmonization agreement with Alberta that allows the two to go hand in hand through a regulatory review process in an efficient way, and that needs to happen.

Natural Resources committee  You'll get it.

Natural Resources committee  Sure. I guess I'll begin by commenting on your question about whether or not the pace is sustainable from an economic perspective, a social perspective, and environmentally. Certainly, the conclusion we've drawn is no, it is not, because in each of those three dimensions there are significant consequences and significant impacts to Albertans and also more broadly to Canadians.

Natural Resources committee  If I could just comment, the focus on an ancillary recovery is obviously one the industry has viewed favourably, given the fact that there is some economic return to offset some of the costs of the infrastructure associated with carbon capture and storage, but there are a wealth of other opportunities that have been alluded to in terms of salt caverns, depleted geological formations, or, what is most preferable from a risk and safety perspective, deep saline aquifers.

Natural Resources committee  The Pembina Institute is currently just completing a research report looking at fiscal treatments of oil sands, specifically, both provincially with the royalty regime and federally with the tax system. That report should be scheduled for release before the end of this month. I can certainly make sure that all the members of the committee receive a copy.

Natural Resources committee  I think you touch on a very good point, in terms of what needs to happen in terms of the context to actually make some of these what we refer to as step-wise changes occur. What we have seen--and to give the industry credit where credit is due--are some incremental improvements on an intensity basis, whether it's the amount of water used per barrel of synthetic crude oil or the greenhouse gas emissions, etc.