Human Resources committee  It's just to pursue the point made with regard to the example of a framer. A previous statement indicated that education and training are a provincial responsibility. In British Columbia and Saskatchewan, they have now recognized the occupation of framer; you can get a certificate of qualification as a framer in both of those provinces.

Human Resources committee  As was mentioned before, the existing issue with the trades program and the apprenticeship program is that is geared in the end to the non-residential construction industry. So people go through a process of three or four or five years of in-class training and on-the-job training, and the only time they get a certificate of qualification is when they've finished all that.

Human Resources committee  Yes, and the thing is that a lot of the talk that goes on deals with new construction. There are 12 million houses on the ground. They're occupied by people. They don't move, and they're only new once. The renovation industry is over $40 billion. I would like to have a qualified tradesperson come to work in my house--and I'm sure a lot of you would as well--and not the torn shirt, unshaven beard, the four-day-old beard, and sparks shooting out of the plugs and the switches and what not when they're working around the house, or a plumbing pipe dripping on your dining room table.