Industry committee  I'm going to actually turn it over to David. He's done some work on this.

Industry committee  It's a fair question. I wish I had the answer, although the respective members probably have a lot better balance on it than I do when we address it in our specific microcosm. I don't have a panacea or an answer for you. I can tell you that what we look at as the crisis, if you want to call it that, is that people are closing and shutting down, and we're losing jobs.

Industry committee  Personally, I haven't. No.

Industry committee  I'll preface it by saying I'm certainly no expert on taxation. Notionally, in New Brunswick, for example, or in the whole of Atlantic Canada, when they went to the HST, it gave an advantage on the input price, so while you're paying for retail sales tax as an input into your production processes, you harmonize the taxes around a value-added tax, and it gives you some advantage on the price or the cost of your goods going in, such that when it comes out at the other end you're more advantaged in the output price that you're able to offer to the market.

Industry committee  Certainly what I see--and I have anecdotes, but we have a broad enough base across the manufacturing sector in Ontario that is real--is that people are making business decisions now to shut operations. The movement at the governmental level, even to the point of showing that there is a focus and a real addressable willingness for us as a nation and as a government, as a sector, to look at and address the competitiveness issue, sends the right directional statement to business leaders.

Industry committee  No, I think Ontario and Quebec are significantly struggling right now. Certainly my colleague in Quebec would absolutely agree with me. In fact, we don't even have a manufacturing sector in Quebec anymore. The business was in Bell Canada or the focus business. It's had significant impact.

Industry committee  That's a good question. I would like to see our manufacturing sector in Ontario and in Quebec able to compete. I'm going to use an anecdote for you concerning one of the customers I have in my base who I deal with a lot, and it's been in the press. It's Maple Leaf Foods. If you look at Maple Leaf Foods, they're very significantly in the hog business in Canada.

Industry committee  Thank you. Thanks for having me here tonight. I am representing the Toronto Board of Trade, although I do work for Bell Canada. I'm the vice-president of enterprise for Bell Canada, and the manufacturing sector is one of the sectors I'm responsible for. I'll bring in and draw on as much experience as I can on the downturn that, in fact, even we feel through the manufacturing competitiveness.