Natural Resources committee  From the figures I've seen, the mines themselves will eventually cover around 3,000 square kilometres. That's the current projection. Then I believe there will be an additional 149,000 square kilometres. Is that right?

Natural Resources committee  I'll certainly track down those figures and get them back to you. I think it's important at one level to look at the boreal forest as a whole resource nationally and use that broader vision to benchmark areas of non-disturbance. But it's also important to look in situ at the planning that's going to happen to the communities.

Natural Resources committee  I take Syncrude's commitment at their word and I think they're doing their honest best, but your point about the fact that the scale is really without precedent is an important one. There are many players operating simultaneously in an environment that none of us know. The hydrology itself is an extraordinarily complex thing.

Natural Resources committee  Yes. On our advisory committee there is the World Wildlife Fund, represented by Monte Hummel; there's Ducks Unlimited Canada, which is represented by Gary Stewart, who has recently retired--I don't know if you knew that; we have the Canadian Parks and Wilderness Society, national; we have ForestEthics, which is more of a market-based organization; we have the Nature Conservancy; and we will be adding a couple more NGOs.

Natural Resources committee  As I understand the goal—and again, this is an area in which we're supporting the good work of folks like Pembina, the World Wildlife Fund, and others who have thought this through at a much more technical level—we're relying on the analysis that they have done at that technical level to suggest that it is possible.

Natural Resources committee  The question you raise around extirpation is, I think, if we're uncertain that we can get things back, then is it reclamation? In some cases I think we have to accept that this is a transformed landscape that, as you said, may not be in its original shape but should be in a safe and functioning state.

Natural Resources committee  The initiative was formally launched in 2003 but was backed on a number of years of research that went back looking at a global assessment of intact forest ecosystems. So it was a number of years in the making. The funding is a combination of U.S. and Canadian foundations. There's no government or corporate dollars in funding what we do.

Natural Resources committee  Partly it's work that can be done in recognizing the need for research and making it something that is recognized within the taxation or the granting system—the joint ventures that can be done to ensure that when one company takes on work, it is work that is enjoyed across the whole sector.

Natural Resources committee  To start with, carbon accounting is not my personal level of expertise. We could certainly point to the particular accountings on sink source and percentages and get back to you on those from a technical point of view. One of the areas I would focus on is ensuring that we don't lose existing storage capacity in the forest wherever possible, and that we invest heavily in the existing intact forest through a variety of protected areas and conservation areas so that we first and foremost reserve our option.

Natural Resources committee  Well, there are a variety of types of torture, and some of them involve hotel rooms and meeting rooms that are windowless, that carry on for days at a time, but that's probably not in the Geneva Convention. The 2020 figure that we've picked up on is based on the work of the Pembina Institute and others that have said they feel that on a project-by-project basis, by using a combination of on-site GHG reductions, energy efficiency, fuel-switching measures, carbon capture and storage, and purchasing offsets, it will be possible for these oil sands projects to economically, physically, feasibly become carbon neutral.

Natural Resources committee  I think the scale and the diversity and complexity of the challenge of rebuilding a forest after a level of development of this size is something that certainly calls for a degree of humility. I think you would agree that when we start reclamation, typically they are almost conceptual plans, because it's a learning as you go.

Natural Resources committee  The Canadian Boreal Initiative was founded in 2003 as an integrated vision for promoting sustainable development in the Canadian boreal forest. It is an unusual set of bedfellows, the signatories to what we call the “Boreal Forest Conservation Framework”. From its inception it's been pan-Canadian as a solution, integrated in terms of protection and development, and working across sectors to find solutions.

Natural Resources committee  My role within the Boreal Initiative is largely around the corporate sector outreach, and I've spent a good part of the last number of months back and forth to Calgary, working with energy sector companies, trying to work out some areas of common interest and address areas of common concern.