Industry committee  What is being discussed now is emergence, meaning that the company would no longer be under the protection of the CCAA and would re-emerge, as mentioned earlier by Mr. Simard. A new pension plan, which we are very proud of, has been implemented. We negotiated it together. It's a good plan.

Industry committee  We believe that a national summit should bring together all the players. You alluded to control over the resource. We noted the problem in Newfoundland and we are seeing it again now in Dolbeau-Mistassini. That control rests with the provinces. That's why it is important for the provinces to attend such a summit, along with the federal government, provincial governments, municipalities, First Nations—who also live off the forest—workers, unions, and organizations representing workers and communities.

Industry committee  Yes, exactly. In this particular case, the strategy adopted by AbitibiBowater's creditors was to say they didn't want to touch retirees' pensions. Of course, as a result of pressure from us and our demands in that regard, they decided they wouldn't touch either those pensions or any amounts accumulated thus far by active workers.

Industry committee  Yes, that is critically important. As we have seen a number of times in recent years, when there isn't enough money in the pension plan when a company declares bankruptcy, the pensioners and workers are the ones that pay the price. I think it's very important for pension plans to be at the front of the line.

Industry committee  Yes, absolutely. That has been our main criticism of this government for more than five years. That is the real problem. If we had developed a vision, if we had said yes, we could have avoided these closures and the human tragedies that are playing out in each of these communities.

Industry committee  The third culprit, as CEP sees it, in all of these events relating to the forest industry and the crisis is currently experiencing, is the Conservative government. After five years of crisis in our industry, what has been done? It can be summarized as two zeros and a line. Loan guarantees from our federal government: none.

Human Resources committee  One of the interesting experiences is the dispute at Radio Nord, which dragged on for—

Human Resources committee  ...22 months, precisely because there was no anti-scab legislation. Another experience we had in Quebec was with Vidéotron. Earlier, I spoke out on behalf of more civilized labour relations. The Videotron conflict is a patent example of what can happen when there is no anti-scab legislation.

Human Resources committee  They are much less likely to happen. When there are no replacement workers, where are the flash points where people could attack each other? We have picket lines. I am not saying that it never happens; it happens, but it is much less likely to happen when there are strikebreakers present.

Human Resources committee  In the sector that we represent, such things are rather rare because it takes so much personnel that they have wind down their operations. Of course, there will be some people there to maintain some services, but it is quite rare.

Human Resources committee  Thank you very much. Good morning. The British Columbia situation is similar to that of Quebec. The Quebec legislation was introduced in 1977 and it made the negotiation process much more civilized. As in British Columbia, the number of strikes and lock-outs went down in Quebec.

Human Resources committee  Mr. Chairman, we have a presentation in two parts. If you don't mind, I will let Brother David Coles begin.