Information & Ethics committee  I want to comment on the issue of minimum fees for producing, and I agree with Mr. Bundus that there are times when the requests are abusive. There are times when if you ask for a minimal fee.... I want to comment on one thing. Let me rephrase this. The cost isn't just borne by the companies, it's borne by the people who buy the products.

Information & Ethics committee  Mr. Martin, are you talking about transborder flows of information within Canada or outside of Canada?

Information & Ethics committee  I'll clarify a couple of things. Within Canada, just as a business practice, if we're doing business in Quebec, British Columbia, or wherever, we meet the highest standards, not the lowest.

Information & Ethics committee  That is interesting, because it depends. In some respects Quebec does, in some respects Ontario does, and in some respects B.C. does. We pick and choose whatever is best for our customers. As far as transborder flows of information, I touched on that briefly earlier when I talked about OSFI regulations for outsourcing.

Information & Ethics committee  There are a couple of things, and I'd like Vivian to expand on this a little bit. One thing I will say is that in terms of customers—I'm not addressing small business, but speaking in terms of our customers—I'm also the ombudsman for Dominion. Every complaint or concern comes to me, and we don't expect our policyholders to articulate their complaints in legislative style.

Information & Ethics committee  I don't understand—

Information & Ethics committee  No, the privacy commissioners decide.

Information & Ethics committee  It is happening. We are being asked by plaintiffs' counsel, by lawyers who are representing people who are suing our clients. They have made access requests for the information. We have no trouble giving them the information. We are saying that documents subject to solicitor-client privilege should remain under solicitor-client privilege.

Information & Ethics committee  We take issue with that. I can cite one particular case that I'm dealing with right now, where we've already made full production in the civil proceedings. Full production is very prescribed and you have to set out everything. You have to say what you have and what you don't have.

Information & Ethics committee  We're not saying that, no. We're not saying they shouldn't be subject to subpoena, that they should be privileged. We're just saying we shouldn't be prevented from defending our clients and carrying out our legal obligations under the policy by not being allowed to talk to a witness.

Information & Ethics committee  Oh, sorry. I apologize for being slow in picking up. I did want to say that as a privacy officer I actually work.... The Dominion of Canada has not had a breach, but I would caution against being too prescriptive about notification and the procedures. I'm going to make an analogy.

Information & Ethics committee  Mr. Martin, I would like to add that, in the property and casualty insurance context, insurers are also required by the Office of the Superintendent of Financial Institutions, the OSFI.... They have very stringent guidelines on outsourcing that we must follow that would provide protections for that situation in the property and casualty realm.

Information & Ethics committee  Yes, it is, and I'm going to ask Ms. Bercovici to explain that. I'm not bragging, but I'm not a lawyer either.

Information & Ethics committee  May I answer that question, as I actually work at an insurance company? Yes, we do have examples of where that happens. For example, if someone is suing one of our policyholders for an injury claim and they're making allegations that our insured is at fault or caused a certain amount of damages, then if we have witnesses to the accident, we have had numerous cases in which the lawyers representing the person who is suing our policyholder, who we're required by law to defend, have said, “You've obtained witness statements, but you don't have my client's permission to do that, so you can't use them”, or, “You've done it inappropriately”.

Information & Ethics committee  You're describing a situation, for example, in which one of our policy holders complains to the commissioner. The commissioner makes a finding that we don't agree with. We would then like to have an opportunity to appeal through some formal process, appeal to the commissioner to review the decision and challenge it.