Citizenship and Immigration committee  I'm sorry, what definition of family are you speaking of?

Citizenship and Immigration committee  The exception now is a spouse, sons, daughters, parents, legal guardians, siblings, grandparents, grandchildren, aunts, uncles, nieces, and nephews. That would certainly be a positive move, but I don't think the safe third country agreement is salvageable by any expansion of the exceptions.

Citizenship and Immigration committee  The main administrative appellate body was decimated five years ago by regulations that were promulgated by the Attorney General at the time. Its membership was cut in half, and it was basically instructed that it had to affirm immigration judges' decisions, except under exceptional circumstances.

Citizenship and Immigration committee  This is the UNHCR's 2005 report, and this is where I might dispute some of the statistics Professor Martin presents, which are not publicly available statistics. In Canada, the recognition rate was 50.4% overall; in the U.S., 34.7%.

Citizenship and Immigration committee  I don't think steps have been taken to address these concerns, and I think the situation of refugee protection has deteriorated enormously over the last five years. That's really the most critical conclusion I would like to communicate. Actually, our standards went up. The system that Professor Martin praises is the result of Canada's leadership and example during the 1980s and 1990s.

Citizenship and Immigration committee  The way it is constituted, the UNHCR is not capable of being such an independent agency. Many people have suggested that a truly independent international body should make these determinations and that all countries be bound by it. Let me just tell you what has been happening with UNHCR in the U.S.

Citizenship and Immigration committee  Yes, okay. I'm sorry.

Citizenship and Immigration committee  I think so, if I understand you. Yes.

Citizenship and Immigration committee  I think those rates are probably correct.

Citizenship and Immigration committee  I think Professor Martin and I disagree about some critical issues. I don't think we disagree about everything. As to his statistics, the United States has been recognizing refugee claims for some groups of refugees and certain refugee claimants; it is not for many, and especially for Colombians.

Citizenship and Immigration committee  Four thousand represents only the number of people who presented themselves at the border. The great majority of people do not present themselves at the Canadian border anymore because they know they don't fit within the exception. That gives a very false—

Citizenship and Immigration committee  People are generally well-informed as to the exceptions. That's half as many as came before the agreement. Most people are not presenting themselves at the border because they know they don't fit within the exceptions.

Citizenship and Immigration committee  I don't think that basis for the agreement is grounded in reality at all between the United States and Canada. People who can't get protection in the United States because it has not been a safe third country for them have been coming to Canada. Canada has never had an overwhelmingly large number of refugees from the United States at its borders.

Citizenship and Immigration committee  Yes. I really don't know what specifically the High Commissioner testified to. Their monitoring report was simply a report as to whether the terms of the agreement, namely, the implementation of the exceptions, was being fairly done, and they concluded that it was. The UN High Commissioner for Refugees is under very real constraints as to their ability to criticize the U.S., especially in a very public forum like this.

Citizenship and Immigration committee  But that has to do only with implementation of the exceptions. It doesn't have to do with the fundamental underlying assessment and assumption of the safe third country agreement, which is that the U.S. is a safe third country.