Finance committee  No.

Finance committee  My basic statement, sir, is based on the premise that access to financial services is a need and a right for Canadians. The banks have reorganized the system to their benefit, which has made access for many consumers less convenient. And I call that commodification, just turning all these bank services into machines.

Finance committee  Thank you, sir. Let me say in passing, in reference to Mr. Protti's comments a moment ago, that I can recall when we had black and white television, rabbit ears, and one channel. We certainly have advanced technologically in many aspects of life, and banking is no exception.

Finance committee  I'm sorry, sir.

Finance committee  Regulation is a practice that is imposed when market forces fail. I'm moving into the whole argument about the Bank Act regulation of banks in Canada; clearly you're aware of it. There are aspects of provision of financial services that are a fundamental need, and one might say a right, of all Canadians—aspects of access to financial services that are constrained, with the current commodification of resources.

Finance committee  Yes, sir. If we assume that my 30¢ model works for the cost of the transaction proper, the switch fee, which is the Interac fee, I understand is in the order of 2¢ to 15¢, which would make it, say, 35¢ or 40¢ in total. There would then be some technology costs associated with the back-and-forth exchange of information between the two banks.

Finance committee  That would be on the low side, sir. If you take my 30¢ benchmark, the switching fee of a few pennies and some.... I don't know the magnitude of the interbank exchange in information costs, but it would probably be a tad above 40¢, or probably not much more than 60¢.

Finance committee  Correct.

Finance committee  That's my view, sir.

Finance committee  Well, I don't normally believe in regulating prices, in any kind; I believe in markets determining prices. But we have a situation here where we don't have a totally free market. There is imperfect competition. We have a standard charge across all banks, so there's no price discrimination among the banks.

Finance committee  No, sir, I believe I said it was a surcharge that I didn't think was unreasonable.

Finance committee  Thank you, Mr. Chair. I've been asked to appear before the committee to give my views on ATM fees. I have not formally studied the issue, but I have read much of the literature and am aware of the issues involved. I have co-authored three books and numerous articles and book chapters on the Canadian financial industry, so I'm certainly aware of the issues and can speak to the question as an informed, dispassionate consumer.