Public Safety committee  No, I'm not suggesting that.

Public Safety committee  One can draw that implication. Certainly part of the problem in Canadian society, and not only in Canadian society, is that we have a long history of stigmatizing the mentally ill. What we know from that experience is that the more we stigmatize the mentally ill, the more we dri

Public Safety committee  Yes.

Public Safety committee  Correct.

Public Safety committee  Correct, right.

Public Safety committee  Considerably less, yes.

Public Safety committee  Yes.

Public Safety committee  I've heard prisons described as high-wage, non-polluting job factories for prison guards, but not in terms of crime reduction, no.

Public Safety committee  I think you can go even further. You'd have to get this from another person, but you really have to ask about the working conditions in the prisons themselves under conditions of overcrowding.

Public Safety committee  That's the evidence from the United States and the U.K.

Public Safety committee  Thank you for that--

Public Safety committee  Thank you for that modest question. There's a three-sentence answer, and there's a three-volume answer.

Public Safety committee  You pose a huge challenge. Number one, I would have to distinguish between the ordinary person on the street who actually knows something about this and the ordinary person who doesn't know anything about this except what he or she--

Public Safety committee  Okay. Dollar for dollar, the evidence is that you are going to get much better treatment outcomes, including crime reduction, in community-based settings than in prisons. However, if you have to rely on prisons--and I think by the time you're talking about prisons, it's too late

Public Safety committee  I have a short answer and then I'd like to turn it over to Graham. My research on the American example is if the United States does A, Canada should do “not A”.