Procedure and House Affairs committee  I admit that I do have some trouble interpreting the rules as they are now drafted.

Procedure and House Affairs committee  I haven't brought those to do for today. We probably don't have time to have a detailed discussion today on this subject. I'm asking that you consider having a detailed discussion. For that discussion, I could bring either point-form or draft guidelines or whatever you'd like to

Procedure and House Affairs committee  Yes, I said ministers and staff.

Procedure and House Affairs committee  Yes.

Procedure and House Affairs committee  It doesn't include members of Parliament. That's a different regime. It includes ministers, parliamentary secretaries, and all of the ministerial-exempt staff, but the largest group is Governor in Council appointees, which is a huge group of several thousand. That means deputy mi

Procedure and House Affairs committee  Certainly.

Procedure and House Affairs committee  I'll ask Gail Lidstone to answer that question.

Procedure and House Affairs committee  The issues are always complex. We have to read every section of the code to determine exactly which provisions apply. It is very difficult to answer specific questions. We need some time to think about our answer.

Procedure and House Affairs committee  I wouldn't want to make a specific comment there.

Procedure and House Affairs committee  In general, there is a very difficult line to figure out between a political activity and a non-political activity. My office should not get too far into the realm of political activities. Frankly, it's a question we continue to struggle with as to just where that line is. That p

Procedure and House Affairs committee  Roses are usually okay.

Procedure and House Affairs committee  It's all a question of each specific case and the surrounding circumstances. They're questions I can't give you a quick answer to. Certainly half a dozen roses is generally fine; it's customary--even a dozen.

Procedure and House Affairs committee  Precisely. And that's why there's a rule in the code that says cumulative gifts. If you get a whole bunch of gifts and they're cumulative, then it starts to be a problem. Similarly, with invitations out to dinner or something, there's a cumulative aspect to all those things.

Procedure and House Affairs committee  Those are value judgments, and it really belongs to parliamentarians to make decisions on them. The problem I'm having with certain parts of this code is that there's very little guidance on just what parliamentarians want their rules to be. That's why I wanted to have the discus

Procedure and House Affairs committee  I think it would be very worth while considering that. It's not within my realm, of course, but it is a problem, and if it becomes an increasing problem.... I struggled with the Thibault case for a long time, putting out the report. As you know, I found technically that he had co