Industry committee  I think what we have seen in the past decade is that a few countries in the OECD, in particular Australia and the United States, have seen a surge of productivity growth in the services sector. Canada hasn't been doing too badly there, but probably not as well as the U.S. and some other countries.

Industry committee  It's difficult for me to comment on all aspects of the Canadian economy, because I'm not responsible for that part, but as far as science innovation issues go, I think there is a lot to be done in Canada, like in many OECD countries. In general, many countries are currently struggling with what they can do about innovation in services, so you're not alone in that.

Industry committee  I think it's a problem for any country, but I think it partly is that you also have to look at what you're getting back. Of course, part of what is invented in Canada may flow outside. The real trick is trying to get things back to Canada as well. I think it's all about being connected, being part of the global innovation system that we see emerging.

Industry committee  The OECD has always been fairly critical of these goals, because we typically think that if you increase R and D intensity, it's the outcome of a process, basically. You're trying to increase innovation in your economy, and if you do that properly, use all the set instruments, hopefully you will increase research intensity.

Industry committee  I don't think it's a question of either/or; I think it's a question of doing both. You need to have a very strong entrepreneurial climate to really get new companies in the marketplace. And if we look at some of the work we have at the OECD, Canada actually is pretty well positioned there in terms of having fairly low barriers to entrepreneurship, which means that companies can easily start up.

Industry committee  The common wisdom with a lot of the stuff we've done at the OECD is basically that if you don't get your overall environment for innovation right, if you don't get your business environment right, then a lot of the other things you want to do will not work. I think you first need to get that environment very right, and then you can also get a lot more returns out of your investments in science and innovation.

Industry committee  That's a difficult question. I think there is a lot of effort from countries to do that, but the success rate is limited. I think it is also partly about companies themselves actually learning and trying to operate in a global environment. I'm originally from the Netherlands, which has a very open economy.

Industry committee  That's always a tricky issue. A lot of it depends on what exactly you're looking at when you're talking about innovation. Canada doesn't spend a lot on R and D, for instance, compared to quite a lot of other OECD countries, which partly has to do with the structure of your economy.

Industry committee  I think everybody is trying to be in that game at the moment. Currently countries that are really attracting a lot of R and D investments are the countries that have very large markets, a lot of high-skilled labour, and fairly low cost. A lot of the R and D investment at the moment internationally is going to countries like China and India, because this is where markets are.

Industry committee  I have just one small point. I think from some of the work we've done at the OECD, if you wait entirely until students are already in high school or university, you typically are too late. So if you really want to get people interested in science and technology, you typically have to start in primary schools and then also make sure they go into universities and high schools in the right areas.

Industry committee  Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you very much for inviting the OECD to say a few words about our work on services. I'd like to make three points and elaborate on them a little bit. First, I think the services sector is becoming more and more important in the OECD area. Nevertheless, we feel there is more that can be done to make it more dynamic.

Industry committee  I can hear you very well, thank you.

Industry committee  I would probably prefer the English, but both are okay.

Industry committee  English.