International Trade committee  Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. I must say at the outset that I am vice-chairman, retired, from Irving Shipbuilding, but I still do some work for them. But I'm chairman of the Shipbuilding Association of Canada, so today I will present the position of the Shipbuilding Associ

International Trade committee  I've been at every meeting the association has had.

International Trade committee  There have been quite a number of meetings.

International Trade committee  No, we came to it reluctantly. Could you indulge me, Mr. Chairman, and I'll tell a story for 60 seconds, which tells you how Norwegians think. We did a large job for a Norwegian company, funnily enough, and Mr. Bjarne Skeie, the owner, came over and I took him in to meet the

International Trade committee  Absolutely not. They're all first-class.

International Trade committee  That could be. It's difficult to say categorically how many vessels still have to be built; it's only a few. Norway has given up its subsidies. There are a few contracts, I am told, under which vessels still have to be built. Is it a massive amount? Obviously not. So they have,

International Trade committee  Absolutely, yes.

International Trade committee  Could I add? In fairness to the bureaucrats, they cannot promise the Government of Canada is going to implement that program. They said they heard us, but they don't sit down and tell us they will ensure we'll get that. So we feel it's a broken promise, but we have to be fair t

International Trade committee  It's quite difficult for any member of the association to say you should not sign the agreement. If it's good for Canada, that's great. But as my friend here said, we have asked many, many times, what's in it for Canada? I remember that we asked at a meeting in Halifax, and she

International Trade committee  Let me go into the other parts of your question. What would we prefer? If it's a benefit to Canada, the agreement should probably go ahead. Would we like it to go ahead as is? Absolutely not. We would like to see shipbuilding carved out, and in addition to the carve-out, perhaps

International Trade committee  Yes, that's quite correct, and I think we go through the same scrutiny by the WTO. But we're always the boy scouts in the world. We appear to take everything to heart and play everything by the rules. I'm not saying you shouldn't play by the rules, but when some other countries b

International Trade committee  We welcome the Davie's new buyer. It's a big shipyard. If it survives, it will be the biggest shipyard in the country. We closed Saint John Shipbuilding through lack of work after the frigate program. There was no continuity. You needed about $300 million a year in that facility.

International Trade committee  No, there are a few people who are not in it. The major shipyards are in it. Port Weller was out while it was under bankruptcy and so was Davie. Port Weller is back in and Davie have told us they are coming back in. Shipyards are distinct from small boat builders. On the major

International Trade committee  Absolutely. That's been our point all along. We said, even if we get our 15-year phase-out and nothing else happens, that's going to be...I think your colleague said death by a thousand cuts. It will be the same thing. The industry will carry on. You won't have the capability to

International Trade committee  I'll talk for the association. I'm forever talking. I think we've been talking about it for six years, and we've made various presentations, quite a number. I've been at them all--I can't remember how many. I've been to at least a dozen, I would think.