Industry committee  I could add that the interface between university and industry is highly variable in Canada right now. In some places and with some programs, it works quite well, and in other places it doesn't work at all. That's an area in which we could do a lot more and try to be more uniform.

Industry committee  Yes. Speaking for my own company, I can tell you that ASL Environmental Sciences has worked very actively with the University of Victoria, as we're in Victoria, and the University of Victoria's NEPTUNE and VENUS projects--the underwater observatories. There's a lot of back and forth.

Industry committee  It's a good question. I was talking about a specific IRAP program. The National Research Council's IRAP program continues to exist, though it's changed. I was specifically referring to the IRAP pre-commercialization assistance program, which was cancelled, as I understand it, in September of 2005.

Industry committee  Aerospace, yes. But that program was removed from the IRAP portfolio, unfortunately.

Industry committee  Most IRAP funding is more around the research end of things or the initial part of research and development, as viewed by SMEs. Often the gap comes when you have the proof of concept in place but then have to take it to the market, which is often much more expensive work.

Industry committee  Yes, it's after the research and more on the development side of things, building the scale of something that's really commercial.

Industry committee  That's right. It's a good point. In attracting outside investment, this IRAP program plays a key part, because you can then leverage money. It's about partnerships again, and it really opens up getting outside investment too.

Industry committee  I suspect it's true for all of us, but certainly for the ocean renewable sector it's not just one department. NRCan has a role. Fisheries and Oceans certainly has a role in the ocean engineering and technology side, and Environment Canada does as well. So on the way the federal government system works, we have split jurisdictions there, and sometimes they can be a barrier.

Industry committee  SR&ED; is a very good program, and one of Canada's real strengths for everybody in science and technology. It has been funded more in this last federal budget. As you probably know, it is administered by Canada Revenue Agency, which is not a science and technology department--it comprises accountants.

Industry committee  I'd like to say it is happening, but I think the programs in the Department of Fisheries and Oceans in the particular sector of renewable energies are not strong.

Industry committee  No. We need to establish priorities in government in partnership with where we see priorities in the future of Canada's S and T policies, and where we want to go. Fisheries and Oceans has a huge mandate, so it's understandable. But again it's a matter of prioritizing, of deciding where they're underfunding, and putting more money in the science and technology there.

Industry committee  Let me take the first shot at that. I think we should look at where our strengths are right now. Canada has a lot of them in science and technology, but we are really strong--and I go back to this--in tidal and ocean wave technology. Right now we are out there right on top of the world, but if we don't do something to....

Industry committee  Can I start on the tidal? As I mentioned, it's a combination, it's not just one solution. It has to be a coordinated set of programs based on a partnership with industry, and industry-led, with key support from government and universities sometimes. John talked about the feed-in tariff, and that's critical for any developing technology.

Industry committee  Mr. Chairman and members of the committee, thank you for the opportunity to speak to you today. I'd like to raise three issues that are important to Canadian small and medium-sized enterprises, SMEs, in the science and technology area, such as my own company, ASL Environmental Sciences, of Victoria, B.C.