Natural Resources committee  I'd like to add that most of my reading suggests a 3% to 5% or 2% to 5% cost per unit. There may be some specific communities that are very advanced--solar photovoltaics all over the place. That could get expensive, but the majority of the gains from building efficiency and connecting a community entry can be done for much less, based on my reading.

Natural Resources committee  Not necessarily, but part of the work is to explore that better. Our policy tools, in my opinion, aren't quite there yet and we need to improve them.

Natural Resources committee  Chris mentioned energy cascading. The integrated energy isn't about the same kind of integrated energy in every community, so the rural example would be cascading with local agriculture. There is energy opportunity in local agriculture. Whereas in a city with a light industry you might get heat from a factory, with agriculture you could use animal waste or other products to generate energy and create fuels.

Natural Resources committee  I'd like to add to that. As Chris pointed out, the urban space, though, is a policy choice. The modelling is going to get more detailed. A key point is that you can go so far with a carbon price--cars get very efficient, buildings get very efficient--but this integrated aspect is directly involved in municipal, provincial, and federal policy.

Natural Resources committee  I'd like to add, if I may, that we would like to see more attention given to this. As Chris pointed out earlier, urban energy use in general is about 60% of our emissions. It's a large chunk. To get at that, and not in an individual sense of how efficient a building is or how efficient a furnace is, but in this integrated aspect, the amount of effort and attention we give to it should be commensurate with the size of the solution it offers.

Natural Resources committee  And there are the broader socio-economic opportunities that were discussed, but just looking at air quality emissions and energy, the gains are enormous.