Subcommittee on Canadian Industrial Sectors committee  We'll work with FPAC to bring that forward.

Subcommittee on Canadian Industrial Sectors committee  In essence, black liquor is a residue that's left over after the pulping process. They extract all sorts of chemicals, and it's basically the sludge that comes out at the end of the process. It is a fuel. There are future applications for it. It's incredible. You can break it down into more chemicals and you can actually do chemical refinery.

Subcommittee on Canadian Industrial Sectors committee  I certainly wouldn't recommend that we offer an equivalent subsidy to do the same thing. I mean, it just doesn't make sense environmentally, and as good stewards we just couldn't support that. But we have to do something to level the playing field, either through trade laws or finding some way of using it more efficiently and providing some form of assistance that will help that take place.

Subcommittee on Canadian Industrial Sectors committee  Sure. The last four years have actually been a transformation for the whole industry, and arguably a forced transformation. We hear a lot that companies haven't modernized enough or they haven't gone into enough value-added, or they haven't looked at their products and expanded, that pulp mills have been the same over the last 50 years.

Subcommittee on Canadian Industrial Sectors committee  You've summarize what I said quite well. I'd just like to specify that we really have to be careful where the softwood lumber agreement is concerned. We have to make sure that these are direct subsidies in various softwood lumber sectors.

Subcommittee on Canadian Industrial Sectors committee  I'm not sure. I didn't check that out. I apologize.

Subcommittee on Canadian Industrial Sectors committee  Certainly. The recent budget includes initiatives that should enable institutions to increase their technological capacity. Those things are going to go a long way. We have some exceptional institutions. For example, the University of New Brunswick has been offering a forestry program for over 100 years.

Subcommittee on Canadian Industrial Sectors committee  An initiative like using more wood is definitely one. There are initiatives that recognize the value of green energy. In the U.S., companies and governments are willing to pay more for that green energy. That doesn't take place in Atlantic Canada right now. I don't know about other provinces; I believe Ontario offers some incentives for renewable energy resources.

Subcommittee on Canadian Industrial Sectors committee  My understanding is that it is what they're offering as interest rates on loans. I got that by contacting several contractors and asking what they were paying. They were saying that it ranged from 8% to 11%, when it's available. Another point is that we're finding that companies that have good balance sheets aren't able to access credit right now, just because they're in the forestry sector.

Subcommittee on Canadian Industrial Sectors committee  I have 20 that are operating.

Subcommittee on Canadian Industrial Sectors committee  Yes. It's unfortunate. We actually thought that 2009 would be the bounce-back year. We thought the end of 2008 would be the swing back, and of course the downturn hit us, and everyone was caught off guard by it. Our companies that are standing right now are incredibly resilient.

Subcommittee on Canadian Industrial Sectors committee  The forest sector applauds the access-to-credit initiatives that the government has put in the budget, but we can't see how all this gets back to us. I believe the approach is that they are putting in money, they're buying back bad debt, and they're doing all sorts of different things that will free up the institutions to lend more.

Subcommittee on Canadian Industrial Sectors committee  Regarding green energy, there are certainly huge opportunities. The cost of energy in New Brunswick is very high. We don't have the advantage of having hydro electricity, like in Quebec. So energy costs a lot. If we had help in one way or another to invest in new green forms of energy that would enable us to reduce our energy costs—by burning our residues, whatever—this would be very positive.

Subcommittee on Canadian Industrial Sectors committee  This is actually the first time we are bringing it up. The actual tax law that exists has been in place for five years in the U.S. It was designed for the automotive and other sectors that would mix any type of renewable fuel--that could be ethanol or anything else--with fossil fuel.

Subcommittee on Canadian Industrial Sectors committee  Thank you, Mr. Chair. Thank you to the members of the committee and to my colleagues who have joined us today. Thank you for inviting me to appear this morning. On behalf of our 50 members and the New Brunswick Forest Products Association's board of directors, I welcome the opportunity to present our views on the crisis faced by the manufacturing sector.