Natural Resources committee  I don't have the figures or the percentages for different types of plants right here, but we could probably get it pretty easily, so we'll hand it over. We use biomass in huge cogeneration plants--producing some 300 megawatts of heat and so on and maybe 120 to 150 megawatts of electricity--down to the smallest boilers, all sizes.

Natural Resources committee  To the strategy, it's very easy because we have waste, garbage, which is a problem. It has to be dumped somewhere; you have to get rid of it. Incineration is a way to get rid of the problem and at the same time produce electricity and heat. If you can do this in an environmentally good way, then this is the best way for society.

Natural Resources committee  Unfortunately, we don't have the figures from Sweden right here. I'm sorry.

Natural Resources committee  Yes.

Natural Resources committee  Self-sufficiency is actually not easy to answer because it is a question of time. You have peaks of demand and you have the normal level of demand. In terms of the net over the year, the net import and export, I would say Sweden normally is a net exporter of electricity. But during peak times we may import, especially since the system is integrated with Europe.

Natural Resources committee  When it comes to the wind industry and the electricity grid, so far it's not really a problem because wind production is way too small in comparison to hydro power in Sweden. So it's not a problem to balance. There is electricity quality as well, so there is a lot of research in developing smart electricity grids.

Natural Resources committee  There is no difference in Sweden. We still have Volvo and Saab in Sweden, although the Americans own them now. But they are also looking into electricity and new ways of making this happen. We already have electric trains in Sweden.

Natural Resources committee  In Sweden we do have small district heating plants for small villages. They are very common in Sweden. Small villages with small plants—not cogeneration, but just heating plants—supplying local villages with heating. That is very popular in Sweden and has been increasing a lot. People prefer to have this kind of centralized system, because it's easier than having your own stove.

Natural Resources committee  Yes. We have such cooperatives. We have cooperatives that put up windmills. You can buy a share in the windmill and you have a very low electricity cost, but you have invested in the plant.

Natural Resources committee  In Sweden it is the same thing. We have a national grid and an international grid. But you can do that anyway because it is just a question of metering and counting. The amount that is produced within the windmill is counted, so you can use the same amount for your house. That is possible, although it is a national grid.

Natural Resources committee  We are actually talking about heat density. It's the number of kilowatt hours per square meter of ground. So the dense areas are most interesting for district heating, as the distribution system is a large investment. So the distribution grids for small houses become quite costly.

Natural Resources committee  It was not really the electricity, but district heating, that was based on biomass—but quite a lot of the electricity as well. But the major portion of electricity production is based on hydro power and nuclear power. But still, we have an increasing amount based on cogeneration and biomass.

Natural Resources committee  Yes, we actually have some similarities with you because even if Sweden is a much smaller country, still it's not densely populated. We have quite long distances between our cities and villages as well. The systems we have are locally based. We have district heating systems based on the local sources.

Natural Resources committee  I agree. There has been a big movement among the people. We have also seen that by providing a good example. We have had authorities coming in and helping with the pilot projects and showing how things could be done. Once they see it and see that it works, that it can be profitable, then they get interested in this new technology and the new way of producing energy or reducing the usage of energy.

Natural Resources committee  I'm not sure if I really understood the question. Are you talking about the integration between the municipalities' expansion and this different system of housebuilding, the integration between the use of energy and the supply of energy? Is that what it's all about?