Finance committee  I think that's a very good idea. Again, within the Bell Canada system, we do have a lot of that flexibility today. Sometimes we have to negotiate that with each individual employee, but in terms of the example you've put forward, we have individuals specifically under those types of systems.

Finance committee  Yes, I'd be happy to. I think one of the most significant risks that pensioners face today is on the termination or wind-up of a pension plan. Today there's no debt contract created between the retirees, the employees, and the sponsoring company. Our proposal is that when a company terminates its plan there would be a debt obligation created whereby the sponsor of the company would have to fund those pension obligations, either up front or over a period of five years.

Finance committee  Yes, the U.K. has a longer rule for funding, and the U.S. has longer as well. There are other countries.

Finance committee  I'm not sure of all the rules governing this, but I believe it may be a company-specific issue. I know that in the case of Bell Canada, we have the ability for people to continue working beyond age 65.

Finance committee  Yes, there are distinctions between the pension regimes of the various provinces in Canada versus the federal regime. There are differences between those Canadian systems and systems of other countries. And in the submissions we've made, we've drawn out some of the differences in those various systems.

Finance committee  I certainly believe that experts are important. The management of pension assets needs to be closely aligned with the management of pension liabilities. Investing assets is not necessarily like investing in a mutual fund. We need experts who understand the long-term nature of pension liabilities and how the particular asset portfolios can be constructed in a manner that best meets those long-term liabilities while minimizing risks.

Finance committee  It would be very impractical in situations to ask for plan member consent over matters pertaining to the management of the pension fund. There should be transparency and full disclosure, a requirement for annual filing, and requirements to disclosure regularly the funding position of the plan, the investment policy, and the funding policy.

Finance committee  If I understand your question, it is with respect to the best scenario for employees and employers regarding pension funds and, in hindsight, how it is that we weren't aware of significant negative consequences of the market turmoil that has taken place. I believe the solution for both employers and employees for meeting all of the objectives of defined benefit pension plans really begins with a strong sponsor.

Finance committee  Yes, it is.

Finance committee  I believe there is far too much volatility within the pension funding rules today. The objective of the pension funding rules is to secure the liabilities that need to be paid out in the future to pension fund members, to retirees. More specifically, the mechanism that's used to do that is the discount rate.

Finance committee  Good morning. I am Siim Vanaselja, executive vice-president and chief financial officer of both BCE and Bell Canada. I am appearing today with Mr. John Farrell. John is the executive director of FETCO. And I'm also appearing with Mr. Brian Aitken, the chief financial officer of Nav Canada.