Subcommittee on Food Safety committee  If you collect records, why would you not use them? This was where one of the deficiencies was in the Maple Leaf program. That's what I heard. They collected records, but they didn't study them.

Subcommittee on Food Safety committee  We're looking here at a system approach, and it's not that we want to have stronger sanitizers, but through the whole system we want to keep the growth of micro-organisms down. By allowing them to build up in the different pieces of equipment, they grow in large numbers. We're saying keep the numbers low, and that was our philosophy at Caravelle.

Subcommittee on Food Safety committee  One of the things I mentioned in my remarks was having it outcome-based. We used to put a lot of emphasis on standards for building materials and the like, but the modern thinking in inspection is to have it outcome-based. As was mentioned before, we don't want to make people sick, we want product to leave the plant without the hazards in it.

Subcommittee on Food Safety committee  I think that's a challenge, because you will put a lot of the smaller plants out of business. One of the requirements, of course, is that if you export, you have to meet certain requirements. In order to do that, then, you need the same standard. But I think there are market opportunities in provinces, like buying local, whereby you do have a safety standard, which I said was equivalent to the federal standard, in that they have a HACCP program.

Subcommittee on Food Safety committee  I'd just like to add that we have to put more effort into training our plant people, too, in human resource development, as I talked about in terms of culture, because that's what's going to get the job done. That takes place before the end product goes out the door. Everybody has a responsibility in sanitizing, cleaning, and checking how the product is handled, how they dress, and whether they wash their hands or not, and whether they come to work sick.

Subcommittee on Food Safety committee  I haven't talked to the union. I don't think they're all vets in the union, unless there are two unions. I think there are a lot of inspectors who are not veterinarians. All I'm saying is why would you go to vet school to learn physiology and pathology and how to do surgery and all that to become a meat inspector?

Subcommittee on Food Safety committee  Yes, Dr. Holley mentioned pooling a lot of data. He got beyond the pool and actually was in touch with many of the public health jurisdictions across the country to find out where outbreaks occurred, whether it was in a school or hospital or church dinner. He found out what the food was, whether it was wieners or potato salad, and the number of people who were ill, that kind of data, which he published.

Subcommittee on Food Safety committee  I'd like to address that. Of course, you have different plants. I have no problem with veterinarians inspecting in slaughterhouses, because they're trained that way, but they're not trained in processing. Those trained in Canada are lucky to get half a course in any type of food safety.

Subcommittee on Food Safety committee  I have submitted my notes to be transcribed.

Subcommittee on Food Safety committee  Baseline studies.

Subcommittee on Food Safety committee  Baseline studies are needed to measure the occurrence of indicator and pathogenic organisms in our raw materials and finished products. This will help evaluate our food-chain food safety systems, including traceability. Summaries of epidemiological data--type of pathogen, number of cases, where outbreaks occur, and commodity type--following the model of Dr.

Subcommittee on Food Safety committee  How am I on time? I'm almost done.

Subcommittee on Food Safety committee  Thank you very much for the privilege and honour of appearing before this subcommittee to share some of my thoughts on food safety. I've included—and I guess it will go with the transcript—a little biography, because I didn't want to take up too much time, but I do have to mention that I'm a professional meat scientist and also work in food safety and quality.