Subcommittee on International Human Rights committee  That really is the $64,000 question. What can be done to really end this insanity? I hate to say there is no one single elegant solution or magic bullet. I think a wide combination of facts, such as was done with regard to Libya, is probably going to be helpful. Number one is isolating the country; number two is having very significant economic sanctions.

Subcommittee on International Human Rights committee  Thank you very much. I appreciate it.

Subcommittee on International Human Rights committee  That's a very good question. It really presents the issue very starkly: whether, when you have two court systems, one of which is neutral and objective and has very professional judges and a completely professional prosecutor on it, as the International Criminal Court does, and another court, which has been--up to now, at least--tinged with politics, bringing a case in the first court could have a negative impact on the second court.

Subcommittee on International Human Rights committee  I agree, and I think it's actually worse than that. This is the first time we've had the following combination of three factors, maybe four. One is a genocidal nation bent on inciting genocide. Two, they're soon to be armed with nuclear weapons. Three, there's a culture of suicide that has an unwillingness to be deterred.

Subcommittee on International Human Rights committee  We're very fortunate to have had a lot of that work done for us by the Honourable Irwin Cotler and people working under his direction. They put together a brilliant petition that I had the honour of signing, together with Louise Arbour, Elie Wiesel, and dozens of other people from around the world.

Subcommittee on International Human Rights committee  I agree completely with that analysis. I think you negotiate from a greater position of strength when there are sanctions hanging over the head of a government like Iran. I think trying to bring a case in front of the International Court of Justice, under the treaty, would be interesting.

Subcommittee on International Human Rights committee  Obviously international politics plays a major role. Iran is an oil-rich nation. It's also a major consumer. It has close connections to China, to Russia, in some respects, and even to France. The applause at the United Nations that I referred to suggests that it has widespread support among some African nations, some South American nations, and some Middle East nations.

Subcommittee on International Human Rights committee  Yes, it would be a very good opportunity. In fact, there are some lawsuits being talked about, particularly by victims of Hezbollah and Hamas, which are directed by Iran. Remember, too, Iran hasn't only talked about this. Everybody in the world now knows that Iran's fingerprints are all over the terrorist attacks that took place in Argentina years ago.

Subcommittee on International Human Rights committee  The answer to that question is yes, if the circumstances were appropriate. The United Nations recently convened a commission, headed by the former foreign affairs minister of Australia, to give an interpretation of article 51 of the UN Charter, which gives every nation the inherent right of self-defence, in the context of nuclear attacks and nuclear terrorism.

Subcommittee on International Human Rights committee  Well, I keep an open mind on how my government will manage this negotiation. It's very, very difficult, and my government cannot take the military option off the table. The idea of an Iran with nuclear weapons that could be used either through its rocket-launching mechanism or through the filtering of nuclear material to make dirty bombs that could be used in Montreal and Toronto and Ottawa, and Paris and London and New York City, is simply something the international community can't accept.

Subcommittee on International Human Rights committee  On a question about that, one has just to look at what's going on in Pakistan today. For a while, Pakistan was a stable democracy and developed nuclear weapons without strong objection from the international community, in the hope that perhaps India and Pakistan would be in a stalemate.

Subcommittee on International Human Rights committee  I think you have made an excellent point. Remember, back in the 1930s, Nazi Germany wanted to solidify its position as the leader of Aryan Europe. Its goal was to try to get Austria to join, and to try to get even Great Britain and the Scandinavian and other Aryan countries, and Italy, to join with it.

Subcommittee on International Human Rights committee  That is a very good question, and the answer is that it has not occurred under international law, as far as I know, although international law.... The reason I cited the Rwanda case is that it undercuts the notion that there's never a possibility of prosecuting people for what they have said.

Subcommittee on International Human Rights committee  International law clearly provides that incitement to genocide is a punishable offence, which means that the international community has reached a consensus that, in an appropriate case, legal action can be taken before a genocide occurs. Mostly it hasn't happened; mostly we've waited far, far too long and too late, and the landscape has been riddled, unfortunately, with the corpses of individual victims whom we haven't saved from genocide.

Subcommittee on International Human Rights committee  I favour the Obama administration's efforts to reach out to everybody. You negotiate with everybody. You make peace not with your friends but with your enemies. That reaching out to negotiate does not in any way negate accountability; indeed, it increases the need for accountability.