Finance committee  I think you attract everyone who has a qualifying heritage property.

Finance committee  The current definition under the act is a property that has a heritage easement either at the municipal, provincial, or federal level. I think that's a good definition. The problem is that you only need the easement. You don't actually have to restore the property or maintain it to any particular standard.

Finance committee  At current interest rates, if we were to set up a federal system as we're proposing, I believe funds would be available at CMHC-equivalent rates, which for five years today is under 4%, plus amortization.

Finance committee  If it met their residential lending criteria, presumably they would.

Finance committee  Yes, the municipality. The current legislation says that those rebates are to be shared equitably between municipalities, school boards, and other interested parties proportionate to the rates that they collect.

Finance committee  Our proposal is not for you to necessarily fund the municipalities. I'm just saying that if your plan is to implement program that will be stimulative quickly, there is, according to Heritage Canada, $8 billion to $10 billion worth of construction that could be performed very quickly on already-identified properties.

Finance committee  Under existing heritage programs, rebates are available in Ontario, for instance, on a sliding scale of between 10% and 40% of the taxes charged on the property.

Finance committee  I think the federal government fits in, in a couple of very important ways. Many years ago, when I started dealing with Heritage Toronto, they had a staff of 142 people. Today they have a staff of six people and they administer two and a half times the number of properties that they did several years ago.

Finance committee  We have a large portfolio of heritage properties, most of which are restored, some of which have not been restored because we cannot get funding for them. There are no lenders that we're aware of in Canada of any particular size that want to fund the restoration of heritage properties even in a strong economy, let alone a weak one, because the costs are so high relative to the—

Finance committee  This would include residential and non-residential properties. The key is to create an incentive, to use a carrot rather than a stick, and to make it desirable for people to restore properties.

Finance committee  The buildings referred to in our brief are the offices of the Senate and the offices of the National Capital Commission. It's a project known as “The Chambers”, behind the PMO in Ottawa. We don't actually own the Senate chamber.

Finance committee  If you're considering selling it, we would be interested.

Finance committee  We could be very interested, yes.

Finance committee  Thank you, Mr. Chair. I'm president and CEO of Woodcliffe Corporation, which owns one of the largest portfolios of heritage properties in Canada. You have before you today copies of our written submission, which I hope you've had an opportunity to review--or will, if you haven't--as well as a list of the municipal tax relief programs for heritage properties currently in operation across the country.