Finance committee  Certainly we would make no argument against a child care program. That isn't included in our brief, but we believe this would certainly help the children in the working poor families, for people to earn additional income and so on. As Mr. Martin mentioned a few minutes ago, we find there are many children living in poverty even though their parents work full time, at full-year-equivalent jobs.

Finance committee  I'm sorry, I don't know that.

Finance committee  There is a lot of progress being made on that. There are a number of organizations. The Social Planning Council of Winnipeg is, in essence, a coalition of different organizations, and I would feel more comfortable with some of our members here. For instance, we have the Immigrant and Refugee Community Organization of Manitoba, which has already opened some transitional housing.

Finance committee  We hear this a lot, so we believe there could be a role to play. We're currently studying and talking with the community about opening an African immigrant centre for action that would concentrate on putting young people into the right hands and connecting them with the right services.

Finance committee  We too are big believers in education as a very important factor in getting people out of poverty, for all groups. I would say you might look at that two-year period. The provincial government used to have very strict limits on people on welfare getting training to get out of welfare.

Finance committee  I don't have those figures in front of me right now, Mr. Martin, so I apologize. I don't have any comparative basis, but it is quite true that your riding, of course, is very high in poverty. We will be releasing a report on child and family poverty in November. It will show a significant increase, and it will show a significant number of Manitoba children still living in poverty.

Finance committee  Yes.

Finance committee  Yes. Thank you very much for the question. Of course, the example you're using of Ottawa and Gatineau, where you're on a provincial boundary and it's very easy to cross, doesn't exist for most people in Winnipeg. Even in rural Manitoba, very few people would cross into other provinces.

Finance committee  Do I think the government will implement this proposal?

Finance committee  I think certainly for the people we see at Winnipeg Harvest, the people we represent at the Social Planning Council, who have more of a marginal attachment to the workforce, it is important that they be given every possible break, and I think that's what Canadians would like to see.

Finance committee  One minute. Sorry, but as a part-time teacher I sometimes fill up three hours without even knowing it. I've just checked the figures today and they remain about the same. Next is the national child benefit supplement. Again, we believe this should be $5,200 per child per year.

Finance committee  Thank you very much, Mr. Chairperson, and welcome to all members of the committee. We have submitted our written brief in advance, as the other organizations have. Our three principal recommendations are, first, that immigration fees should be forgiven for recent newcomers to Canada.