Canadian Heritage committee  The exploratory artist is extremely important, and this is certainly one of the areas that the council helps out big time. As for the other thing it can help out, I'll go back to my world of expertise, folk music, and give you a little example. I was in Newfoundland about seven years ago producing an album for two traditional musicians from Newfoundland.

Canadian Heritage committee  Well, FACTOR is partially funded by the private broadcasters in this country, and Astral Media is one of those private broadcasters that fund FACTOR.

Canadian Heritage committee  No.

Canadian Heritage committee  I want to be, but I guess I'm not. I guess I'm too old and cynical. The music business in this country is a small group of people. The other people who provided input into the study were CIRPA, or the Canadian Independent Record Production Association, of which I'm a member; and FACTOR.

Canadian Heritage committee  Well, I'm old enough to remember the days before the Canada Council, and if it were eliminated now, I suspect a lot of our artists would be looking for benefactors of some sort or other. They would have to go looking for Molson's, some private corporation, or perhaps to some endowment of some sort or other.

Canadian Heritage committee  Well, not many. Not many, no.

Canadian Heritage committee  Well, McAuslin's Brewery in Montreal supports artists. There are some. I don't want to say there are none. There are some.

Canadian Heritage committee  I certainly don't, but I find there's an interesting connection between Astral Media Radio and the people who fund FACTOR—because there is a connection. Maybe it's just a coincidence.

Canadian Heritage committee  No, not at all, and I was frankly sort of surprised that neither I nor anybody I knew had been consulted. When I saw some of the list of consultations, which I finally figured out, a lot of the outside consultations were with large media companies. Yes, it was quite a surprise, and given that I've been on the juries—I've been on the jury at Canada Council twice, and I received a grant once a long time ago—it was surprising that we weren't consulted.

Canadian Heritage committee  Thank you. Good afternoon. I'm going to read a bit of prepared material just because there are some thoughts that I don't want to miss. I'm also an artist and a producer, but I am also a partner in a record label, an independent Canadian record label. Perhaps I can throw some light on another side of this argument for not eliminating diversity programs from the council.