Justice committee  I think when we're talking about the issue of young offenders being used, we do see that in some cases. I don't think it's so widespread. Like we say, there are small pockets of organized crime activity where that does take place. In a way, it kind of comes back to the issue of ensuring that these youth who are being used have positive people and positive resources around them, so that their role models aren't the gang members who are recruiting them.

Justice committee  I just want to build on that point as well. I don't know if I'm speaking for anybody in this room in particular, but some people's circumstances are bad enough that prison is an improvement over their circumstances, because if you know that every day you're struggling and you're not eating, and you know that if you go to prison you get three square meals a day, you get a gym pass, you get cable TV, and you've got a roof over your head....

Justice committee  I think when we're talking about gangs and organized crime, what we have to do is deconstruct what is a gang. If you look at what a gang is, basically a gang is a social network. It's providing a social opportunity and providing an economic opportunity like any other business, the major difference being that there's a large percentage of illegal activity within that.