Indigenous and Northern Affairs committee  The basic science goes right back to everything from fisheries, water.... You know, we used to have water stations on all sorts of remote rivers. They're gone, so you're missing the continuity of the information. There's climatic data, some of the most fundamental basic stuff. There's the vegetation and the vegetation changes.

Indigenous and Northern Affairs committee  Exactly. You're using imperfect information to make a best call at this point in time. One of the issues that comes forward all the time, particularly for industry, is that very large areas just haven't been explored yet. If you identify an area for other values and there isn't an equal level of research and information, then you may decide to protect an area for its other values when it's sitting on a giant mineral deposit, which we might find we really need.

Indigenous and Northern Affairs committee  I think that's very true, but it goes back to what the government's role is. When government neglects to pay attention to the basics, such as straightforward traditional research, they're creating problems that have consequences down the way. Where did we see this happening? We saw it happening in the 1980s when we were cutting the deficits.

Indigenous and Northern Affairs committee  We know that the north is experiencing climate faster and to a larger degree. The impacts of this on land use planning are significant, partly because land use planning focuses on a timeframe of 20-plus years. So if it's happening at the rates that it has been and that we see on the ground, we're going to have tremendous changes occurring, which means that we end up dealing with a whole new batch of issues that were unanticipated when the process started, or when it's time for the first set of reviews.

Indigenous and Northern Affairs committee  Yes, it is. The key part of it is the mandate that the commission is given, and that's the opportunity, when the parties say up front, “Look, these are the main issues that we want to see addressed in the plan”. That usually includes all sectors. The question that has come up in the planning process itself is whether it is balanced enough so that you're giving fair hearing to all the different interests.

Indigenous and Northern Affairs committee  The biggest problems are generally ones of trust: willingness to come to the table, give full and transparent disclosure of information and interests, and work towards building a consensus. Personally, because I'm trained as a planner, I would add more discipline to the process.

Indigenous and Northern Affairs committee  I should clarify that the council is not involved directly in the planning that's done by an independent commission. The commission solicits input from all possible stakeholders, and that includes going to all the communities. Not that there are a lot of communities, but they do visit all the communities.

Indigenous and Northern Affairs committee  Yes, it is.

Indigenous and Northern Affairs committee  Absolutely.

Indigenous and Northern Affairs committee  I think we have to recognize that there is consensus in that we think YESAA has done a remarkable job. All the first nations agree, whether they are settled or not, that the YESAA process works and having a Yukon-based process works. The real issue here is that we're not carrying our end of this, and we're not carrying our end of this partly because there's a bunch of disconnects.

Indigenous and Northern Affairs committee  There are two reviews. There is the five-year review specific to YESAA, which Stephen can speak to. There is the nine-year overall implementation review of the land claims implementation, from which we get our funding. I'm hoping they will increase the requirement for accountability by everyone as part of the funding agreements that come out of this.

Indigenous and Northern Affairs committee  Yes, there is. Essentially what it requires is for the two first nations governments to get together. They have managed to resolve it in several cases. The appeal would not have not gone ahead if the various first nations could not have reached agreement on that point. Most recently, the Vuntut Gwitchin and the Tr'ondëk Hwëch'in had an overlap issue.

Indigenous and Northern Affairs committee  Quickly, with respect to land use planning, if there is no settled land claim, we don't do regional planning there, because they must have signed an agreement under the Umbrella Final Agreement. Until then, we can't go there. Even if there is a lot of pressure for it, we can't go there.

Indigenous and Northern Affairs committee  I didn't say the ass end. You're the rear end.

Indigenous and Northern Affairs committee  I must admit that as a planner I was surprised as well when it came up. I think the way it was envisioned was that in the YESAA process, being at the back end of dealing with a specific proposal, the assessor would have and has a responsibility to work with a proponent to try to see how much can be done to bring a project into alignment.