Afghanistan committee  I'm unaware of that report.

Afghanistan committee  Well, I would disagree with you that the Geneva Conventions do not apply to the armed conflict in Afghanistan--

Afghanistan committee  Well, there's some dispute about whether it's an international armed conflict or not, but regardless, common article 3, which is the obligation or duty not to subject individuals to inhumane or cruel treatment, applies both in internal civil armed conflicts or international armed conflicts.

Afghanistan committee  No, I don't think so. I don't think there would be any lawyer who would disagree with me that common article 3 applies. That's an article that's in all the Geneva Conventions, 1, 2, 3, and 4. It's the prohibition against cruel and inhumane treatment, and I think any lawyer would agree with me that this applies in this conflict.

Afghanistan committee  Common article 3 is part of the Geneva Conventions, and I believe they're in violation of common article 3.

Afghanistan committee  No, it's quite the contrary, Mr. Abbott. We've never advocated for that. We've just advocated for some kind of process that's more functional. For example, in the Military Police Complaints Commission, again, those lawyers are top-secret-cleared. We've suggested to have those lawyers look at the documents and then work out with Department of Justice lawyers what information can be introduced and which redactions, without our being involved in that.

Afghanistan committee  The way I see it is that at least the Military Police Complaints Commission lawyers can do something with the documents. There is some utility if they see the uncensored documents. As I understand it--and I've read those terms of reference a couple of times--all Mr. Iacobucci is doing is giving a second opinion with respect to whether those redactions or national security privilege was properly applied.

Afghanistan committee  There was a handful, I believe, in 2002. As you recall, the Canadian Forces were deployed in Kandahar Province in December 2005. From 2004 and 2005, Canada had a small force around Kabul. In 2002 they were involved in some counter-insurgency operations and Canada did detain some individuals.

Afghanistan committee  That's correct. I don't think there were any, until April 2006, who were handed over to Afghan authorities.

Afghanistan committee  The Geneva Conventions, and also the Convention against Torture, and the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights—I'd say we're in breach of all of those conventions.

Afghanistan committee  I do. I would point back again to the Federal Court judgment in 2008. There were two judgments, one in February 2008 and one in March 2008, where Justice Anne Mactavish found that the charter does not apply and so dismissed our application on that basis. However, she took care to go through all the evidence of torture that we had led, and also problems with the May 2007 agreement.

Afghanistan committee  Well, for troops, absolutely. She said detainees, and then she turned to troops and she said she had some concerns there, because it would seem the only Canadian law that applies is Canadian criminal law, and this raises a live concern, and she pointed that out. So if she had been asked to apply international law, I have no doubt in my mind that she would have found that we were in breach.

Afghanistan committee  I think that is a very serious concern, and I think that's one big question that remains unanswered. Are the Canadian Forces receiving intelligence back from NDS interrogations and are they inquiring to satisfy themselves that it wasn't the product of torture? I think that's a very serious issue.

Afghanistan committee  It's based on their first-hand interviews with detainees.

Afghanistan committee  I'm not sure what you mean by that, Mr. Hawn. For example, I've heard General Hillier say that prisoners and Afghan prisoners in prisons obviously cannot expect the same standard of treatment and conditions that Canadian prisoners receive in penitentiaries here. But that's not what we're talking about.