Finance committee  I'm sorry, the multi-employer plans...?

Finance committee  I should clarify that the multi-employer plan exists today for employers who are already connected to each other, for example, in the construction industry. As for what's missing, we need to change the law, or we're recommending that the law be changed to allow unaffiliated employers to band together in a multi-employer plan, which they cannot do today.

Finance committee  I think I'll repeat what I said earlier, in the sense that the two, indeed, could coexist. Our view is that there's absolutely nothing stopping the country from enabling multi-employer plans and auto-enrolment and all those other things, and getting that going, because we really think that would help, and we should go ahead and just do that as a country.

Finance committee  I would agree with that point that Mr. Campbell made on raising the age at which RRIFs or RRSPs and pensions need to be started. I would just observe that in 1978 the age 71 limit was additionally put in for RRIF withdrawals. Since 1978, Canadian life expectancy for men and women aged 65 has increased at an astonishing rate.

Finance committee  We're suggesting an expansion of the earned income definition for RRSP contributions just to make it a little easier for self-employed Canadians whose income shows up in different ways. It doesn't necessarily show up as a salary, as it does for employed Canadians. For self-employed Canadians, income shows up in the form of dividends and other forms coming back to the individual, and we're just suggesting that to make it easier for them to save for retirement we should expand that definition of earned income.

Finance committee  The insurance safety nets that are referred to in Ontario, in the United States, and in other places have been put in with the very best intentions. In practice, it's been a very big challenge to make them work successfully. For example, every time a large employer is on the brink of bankruptcy and it threatens to wipe out the pension guarantee fund, you've seen that governments--the Province of Ontario, the Government of the United States--have to step in and take other measures, because the collapse of a large plan would completely wipe out the relatively small safety net fund that has been established.

Finance committee  The multi-employer pension plan model actually exists today in Canada, but to join it you have to be affiliated with the other employers. For example, in the construction industry, you'll have a number of stand-alone companies that are able to join an MEPP, because they all happen to be part of that particular industry.

Finance committee  First, let me clarify your point around the fees. I would observe that in the large end of the Canadian life and health insurance pension market, the fees are indeed very competitive. We're talking fees in the 60 to 70 basis points for record-keeping and investments, and these benchmark favourably against the most competitive nation in the world just to the south of us, which has a 401(k) industry that's 20 times larger.

Finance committee  Thank you, Mr. Chair. My name is Dean Connor. I'm the chief operating officer of Sun Life Financial. It's my pleasure to be here today on behalf of the Canadian Life and Health Insurance Association, along with Frank Swedlove, the president of the association. The Canadian life and health insurance industry commends the standing committee for its focus on retirement income security.