Environment committee  I'm not an expert, just to make that clear; I'm a journalist, and I've seen nothing to indicate that, in my readings, they actually get that high from the oil sands. The answer is no.

Environment committee  Yes. From the oil sands we'll be seeing a tripling, up to 140 million tonnes a year. I think we're doing about 38 million tonnes a year right now in oil sands, and the projection is that it will be up to 140 million tonnes a year by 2020. So we're seeing a huge increase, a tripling, of the emissions from the oil sands, and we don't see any way that they can actually reduce their emissions in a significant way.

Environment committee  Yes, it is. I'm sorry, I didn't know you didn't have a copy. I think you can Google it on the Program on Water Issues at the University of Toronto. It's available on the web page at the Program on Water Issues. Also, afterwards I can send the clerk a link for the whole report.

Environment committee  What I was referring to, and I'm not too sure about the question, is that carbon capture is best done at a plant that is a large, single-source emitter, like a coal-fired plant. Now, there are plans to do carbon capture at upgraders. One of the pilot projects will be done, they hope, at the Shell Scotford Upgrader near Edmonton.

Environment committee  Yes, but my conclusion would be that there's a big gap between what we know now and what we can say in the future. We're hearing governments say—Alberta's, for example—that we will be sequestering 140 million tonnes by 2050, but there's no scientist that I've found saying that with any authority.

Environment committee  I'm sorry. We have no audio. I can see you, but I can't hear you. So I'll just go ahead?

Environment committee  Thank you for inviting me to appear today. I too am no David Schindler, not even a Roger Gibbins. My name is Graham Thomson and I’m a political columnist with the Edmonton Journal, but today I’m speaking to you perhaps more as the author of a research paper on carbon capture and sequestration that I wrote for the University of Toronto.

Environment committee  Yes.