Citizenship and Immigration committee  Going for that model is indeed an option. But that also probably entails an entire restructuring of budgets, the way in which budgets are organized. I can't state a position on that, but that's definitely one way. What are the implications of that from a budgetary standpoint? I don't know.

Citizenship and Immigration committee  That's a possibility, but that appointment method exists solely for what are called administrative oversight agencies, such as the Auditor General, the Chief Electoral Officer, the Privacy Commissioner and so on. Independence is granted at that level, which makes it possible to get the most competent people possible.

Citizenship and Immigration committee  No, because the IRB is an independent tribunal. So if we say another government agency... The Canada Border Services Agency is a government agency that is part of the central government. Telling the IRB how it should behave in specific cases doesn't work. Then the IRB would no longer be independent.

Citizenship and Immigration committee  In structural terms, you can train a somewhat bizarre creature. To my knowledge, apart from the Immigration Division, there are not a lot of models like this one. We appoint officials who we say are independent and impartial, but they are nevertheless public servants. They are therefore nevertheless part of the bureaucratic machinery, since they are appointed and are there to serve the government.

Citizenship and Immigration committee  Yes, it means that the instruments are not subject to the regulatory process provided for by the Statutory Instruments Act. Consequently, no draft regulations will concern the matter of consultation. Consultation is provided for by directive. Nevertheless, this is now part of the regulatory process.

Citizenship and Immigration committee  That's correct.

Citizenship and Immigration committee  These are two separate mechanisms, but they are very similar. The Bastarache Commission, in particular, is examining the procedure for appointing Quebec Court judges. That process is very similar to the appointment process for members of the TAQ, the Tribunal administratif du Québec, which is also being examined by Justice Bastarache.

Citizenship and Immigration committee  No, but I do want to say something. What is important is the competence of the individuals. That said, avoiding all political issues is quite impossible. There is a matter here of public education that has to be done. It's the government that decides who will be appointed and, in the choice..., if you say choice, it's because there are one, two or three possible individuals.

Citizenship and Immigration committee  That's the problem, in fact. By countries of origin, we're not specifically stating exactly what we're talking about. In itself, the act poses arbitrary problems. In addition, the criteria will be set by regulation, whereas, in the past 20 years, it has been a legislative policy, particularly in the federal government, that criteria stripping people of rights are set out in the act not in regulations.

Citizenship and Immigration committee  [Inaudible—Editor] the act, now. That's purely administrative. So the government can change that, as it wishes, from one day to the next. Moreover, that's what we've seen, from the switch from Mr. Fleury to the current chair of the IRB, whose name I don't remember.

Citizenship and Immigration committee  What I understand is that officials are part of the board, which is the first level within the board. Then there's an appeal, again within the board. However, the processes of appointing officials to the first level and to the Appeal Division are different. The officials are appointed under the Public Service Employment Act and the members of the Appeal Division are appointed by Cabinet.

Citizenship and Immigration committee  There are major problems concerning section 7 and the protection of fundamental justice. There are clearly problems in that regard. Would it pass the test of the courts or not? That's another question. That said, some problems can definitely be raised. Now this system will often be compared with the one in Australia, for example.

Citizenship and Immigration committee  At the federal level, there is no selection or recruitment process for the members of administrative tribunals. No reform has been conducted in this area within the federal government. There is one in Quebec, under the Act respecting administrative justice, which was passed in 1996.