Citizenship and Immigration committee  May I add that I have provided a brief to the committee? It's simply delayed until the translation is completed. Unfortunately, our translator at the University of Ottawa was on two weeks vacation.

Citizenship and Immigration committee  If it's done well, I'd have to say the public service. Yes, if it's done well, the public service.

Citizenship and Immigration committee  It's the Refugee Protection Division. We're talking about the refugee decision-makers. The first half of the current appointment process right now is a very complicated selection process involving an examination to identify six qualities of members. They go through quite a subtle process, so they have a lot of those skills.

Citizenship and Immigration committee  That's right. In Elections Canada, it actually provides in the act that for the position of the chief electoral officer they must go outside. It doesn't mean a public servant, an immigration officer, or a board member can't apply, but that we get the widest possible field of candidates.

Citizenship and Immigration committee  I'm not sure all of those could go in. It could certainly be in the board policy and in the rules, and there could be a commitment from the chair. This is framework legislation for the general authority to do it and the requirement for a broad external hiring process. It would be difficult to put more detail than that into the regulations.

Citizenship and Immigration committee  Do you mean between political appointments or the public service?

Citizenship and Immigration committee  Yes, it has. It was actually successfully tried here in Canada in 2000 and 2001 through a pilot project in Toronto. As for how it works is, it's a smart use of money. Frequently, refugee claimants are refused who actually thought they were refugees. They're not all phony claimants.

Citizenship and Immigration committee  There are different forms of harm and risk, but they're not separate. They overlap. For example, there are kinds of persecution called cumulative persecution, which is made up of several different smaller kinds of harm that would all clearly come within H and C. They are separate streams.

Citizenship and Immigration committee  First of all, in terms of public service decision-makers, I've said the authority should lie with the chair because that's where you gain your independence. In actuality, the Immigration and Refugee Board has become quite good at selecting RPD decision-makers.

Citizenship and Immigration committee  It's very hard to answer that question. Of course, I'm not the government. So I can't speak to its motives. It wants to completely separate the two processes, as though they were completely different. That's a theory. In fact, that's not the case because the reasons for those two processes are mixed.

Citizenship and Immigration committee  That's correct.

Citizenship and Immigration committee  Are you referring to the safe country list, or are you talking about the hiring of members?

Citizenship and Immigration committee  It is presumed under the legislation right now that the chairperson presumably would have the authority for the hiring. This is of the public service decision-makers. What I pointed out, however, is that since it only says it's under the Public Service Employment Act, in actuality that act says that it's the Public Service Commission that could make the designation of who is in charge of the hiring process.

Citizenship and Immigration committee  In my view, yes.

Citizenship and Immigration committee  Thank you. First of all, I want to thank the committee for the invitation to speak to you. I'm the director of the Refugee Forum at the University of Ottawa, and in the past several years we've conducted a great deal of research, not only on the Canadian refugee system but also on other asylum systems, particularly in the other industrialized countries, and I'd be glad to respond to any questions you have in that regard.