Citizenship and Immigration committee  I haven't specifically looked into that. I haven't heard about the particular case you're referring to.

Citizenship and Immigration committee  —for unlawful purposes, or—

Citizenship and Immigration committee  That's a good question. I don't know the answer to that question. There are other provisions in the Criminal Code that could be used where there's kind of widespread fraud. I think your question points to the complexity of undocumented and illegal migration.

Citizenship and Immigration committee  You could create a specific offence for recruiting—

Citizenship and Immigration committee  Right. But you'd have to figure out what the nature of that offence is: is it for coming to Canada—

Citizenship and Immigration committee  Then you're starting to get into consumer protection issues and you run into the difficulty that consumer protection issues are a matter of provincial jurisdiction.

Citizenship and Immigration committee  You would have to try to go under fraud, or you could try to regulate this by creating some kind of new profession--for example, immigration agents, temporary migration agents--but you'll run into the same kind of problem that we're facing currently.

Citizenship and Immigration committee  You could always make a change at a later date. You do run into jurisdictional issues. Certainly if you want to have the law societies involved, you're talking about a provincial not a federal matter. There are jurisdictional challenges and then there's the challenge of establishing the track record.

Citizenship and Immigration committee  I think a stay of removal would certainly make it easier to secure convictions. And I think on the issue of having a central location with a phone number where people could go to report all complaints, irrespective of whose jurisdiction it falls under, is a good idea, not just for the immigrants and the refugee claimants themselves but for advocacy groups that are working with them, just because it is really complicated at the moment.

Citizenship and Immigration committee  I think it's a good point. In the course of my research I've looked at people who were representing people and who were not members of CSIC and not lawyers, and I did actually find online advertisements where people were saying that they were members of CSIC but they in fact were not.

Citizenship and Immigration committee  It does seem low, but my sense is that the real problem is not going to be how significant the punishment is but how easy is it going to be to secure convictions. I think it is highly unlikely that most immigrants and refugee claimants who suffer mistreatment by immigration consultants are actually going to report that mistreatment.

Citizenship and Immigration committee  Thank you for the question. You're right to say that immigration consultants are quite exceptional, in that you have this situation where non-lawyers are providing what amounts to legal advice. So it's exceptional. There are a couple of areas where non-lawyers do get involved in legal issues, specifically, surrounding the activities of paralegals in some provinces.

Citizenship and Immigration committee  I think that's the general argument that I'm making, but I think it's important to take into account the context here. I'm not taking the position that in principle, a well-regulated immigration consulting industry could not have people who are qualified to provide services to refugee claimants.

Citizenship and Immigration committee  I don't have that data. That would be a good question to ask CSIC, whether they collect some of that data. Anecdotally, I have heard both situations where claimants will say “I was charged the same or even more to go a consultant”, and situations where people will say “The reason I went to a consultant was because I didn't get legal aid and I couldn't afford a lawyer, and this guy was offering to represent me more cheaply.”

Citizenship and Immigration committee  It is not something I have been able to look at in detail. I've tried to account for that a little bit by looking at different averages for success rates for claimants from particular countries. So I can tell you, for example, whether there is a difference in the success rates for claimants who are represented by lawyers and claimants who are represented by counsel where the claimant comes from India.