Procedure and House Affairs committee  With regard to process, I think there is a difference, in that new initiatives typically need policy approval at cabinet first. You need to go the memorandum to cabinet route. You need to explain why you need a new program, a new policy, a new initiative. Existing programs tend

Procedure and House Affairs committee  Let me respond quickly to this. The deputy heads of these organizations are responsible for the cost estimates. The chief financial officers sign off on the cost estimates, and they are accountable for the cost estimates. If they can't come up with a cost—if they don't feel there

Procedure and House Affairs committee  Yes, committee members can recommend and the House can reduce estimates for particular items. They cannot increase the ask for funds, but they can reduce the amount of money that is provided for a particular purpose, for a particular vote.

Procedure and House Affairs committee  Sure. From policy initiatives we'd be talking about memoranda to cabinet. From policy initiatives we move to submissions to the Treasury Board. Once Treasury Board has made a decision on funding, all those funding decisions are compiled into the estimates, and they do affect the

Procedure and House Affairs committee  Perhaps I can turn to my colleague on the principles we apply in costing and she can explain. We certainly don't go to the most costly alternative; that's not the way the costing is done. A set of principles are employed, and they do follow best practice. Perhaps I can turn to

Procedure and House Affairs committee  Perhaps I can explain what is meant by that. Initially with any policy item, but particularly with a new bill, a lot of details need to be sorted out. So the first cost estimates are necessarily going to be high level. They're only going to take some factors into account. As mor

Procedure and House Affairs committee  No, at the time an MC is prepared, we and Privy Council Office require costs to be provided, so there would be at least high-level costs provided at the time legislation, a new bill, is being considered.

Procedure and House Affairs committee  That's correct.

Procedure and House Affairs committee  Absolutely. As more and more of the implementation details fall into place, it becomes easier to identify, break down, and be very specific about the costs. When we get further in the life cycle to a submission being prepared for Treasury Board, the costs become very detailed and

Procedure and House Affairs committee  Yes, and it becomes even more precise as some of these bills that have not been passed yet become law. As initiatives are rolled out, the information on cost becomes much more specific because you know the phasing, you know the components, you know all the players involved, all o

Procedure and House Affairs committee  That's correct.

Procedure and House Affairs committee  Exactly. Those costs can evolve, and of course the bill can be amended and there can be other changes before it becomes law.

Procedure and House Affairs committee  I think there is continual refinement of costing. I'm not sure about that particular bill. It could be that there were changes introduced in the policy and the approach and that may have affected the costing or re-costing when the bill was reintroduced. I presume there would have

Procedure and House Affairs committee  Certainly. And some of these bills, as you mentioned, do not have easily identifiable costs.

Procedure and House Affairs committee  That's my understanding, yes.