National Defence committee  I think we may have, a couple of years ago, yes, with the F-22.

National Defence committee  I can't answer. I don't even know. I don't follow that side of it.

National Defence committee  Well, they call themselves “4.75”, “4.9”, and “5.1”. They're all around us, but nobody actually uses “fifth generation”.

National Defence committee  I don't know. I still hear them use it, but--

National Defence committee  May I make a response to that? My response would be that I don't think you would see this level of investment in this technology if those airplanes were at the same capability.

National Defence committee  Yes, sir. I think the countries have sophisticated ways of analyzing this technology and this capability, and they have all decided in favour of it.

National Defence committee  Correct.

National Defence committee  I do.

National Defence committee  We don't do simulations. Our government does simulations. The U.S. Air Force, U.S. Navy, and U.S. Marine Corps do simulations. I'm sure they'd be happy to show you their results with the Eurofighter.

National Defence committee  Like I said, that's a government-to-government issue. Your government can certainly see those. In fact, we don't develop our capabilities in a vacuum. Your pilots have spent quite a bit of time in Fort Worth flying in our simulators in an advanced-threat scenario that you would

National Defence committee  I don't know if you've got the numbers right with what she said. I didn't, but I worked my Congress just like I'm here today, and I've been with all four of the defence committees. There is a position that's been taken by one of the committees to reduce the number from 42 to 32

National Defence committee  Bloomberg is often—

National Defence committee  It often has a problem.

National Defence committee  It's 42 and 32, okay, and there's a conference that will occur between the committees that will decide the final number. That has not been decided yet.

National Defence committee  I don't know how to measure that. I don't know what dates they're referring to. Have we had some delays in the program? Yes, we have. They've been well publicized. We went through a year-and-a-half engineering review to reduce the weight on the STOVL airplane. That added time t