National Defence committee  We understand that, but here's the difference, sir. When we did the MOU with the F-18, we got a heck of a lot more jobs guaranteed than we are, based on proportion, with this size of a contract. I'm saying if you can get access to the intellectual property with the F-18--

National Defence committee  Thank you.

National Defence committee  Thank you.

National Defence committee  We just think it helps.

National Defence committee  Here's what we're saying, sir. Under the F-18, to use the same argument, we did the repair and overhaul, which means we had to have access to the intellectual property to do the in-service. We understand that--

National Defence committee  I am not one who will sit here before you today, sir, and say that everything should be shopped to the lowest bidder. The reality is that as it affects Canadian jobs, I think Canadians have to come first. If it's a government procurement policy that we can build in Canada, then I

National Defence committee  I said nine plus seven: $9 billion worth of sales and $7 billion worth of in-service.

National Defence committee  The whole issue of IRBs is interesting, because here I have Canada's defence industry. The number one recommendation talks about the government leveraging IRBs. I listen to Minister Clement talking about the history of IRBs and the importance of IRBs. One can argue that a lot of

National Defence committee  Oh, I do. I've been in the aerospace sector for 30 years.

National Defence committee  That's absolutely a fair assessment. We can challenge for the jobs. The Avro Arrow is a great example, because that comes out of our plant. The problem is, who controlled the fate of the Avro Arrow? One can argue that the U.S. government demolished Canada's aerospace industry at

National Defence committee  Pratt & Whitney awarded it to them.

National Defence committee  That's the key. There's one thing about awarding work to Canadian companies. There's something else saying, “I'm awarding you this work and you're creating jobs in Canada.” There's a difference.

National Defence committee  We're not debating whether we should be in or out of the MOU. We understand that you have to get your foot in the door. The question becomes, is it a great deal? Did you do a good enough job? Are there enough guarantees for Canadian workers? If we are going to have $16 billion wo

National Defence committee  There's no question that our employers have the ability and technology to do the work. I guess it's the question you ask them. No aerospace OEM or major aerospace player is going to sit before this committee and say they don't have the technology or they can't compete. Of course

National Defence committee  Hold on. It's not $5.5 billion--that's the issue. The actual program is $9 billion plus $7 billion, and if we do the same offsets with this program that we did with the Hercules, we ought to have the opportunity for all of it.