Bill C-32 (40th Parliament, 3rd Session) committee  Well, sir, we can debate chicken and egg all day. The bottom line is that before these technologies existed, broadcasters were obliged to maintain physical libraries, with LPs and then CDs. They had to put them on a cart and roll them down the hall. The technology has enabled the

Bill C-32 (40th Parliament, 3rd Session) committee  Sir, they were obliged to maintain libraries. I have been, and I currently am, a radio broadcaster. I know what I'm talking about. Unless they hire musical performers to appear in their studios--which still occasionally happens--radio stations are obliged to maintain some source

Bill C-32 (40th Parliament, 3rd Session) committee  They paid for the right to perform the music, which they presently do.

Bill C-32 (40th Parliament, 3rd Session) committee  And the reproduction is separate from performance.

Bill C-32 (40th Parliament, 3rd Session) committee  I'm sorry, sir, this has not punished anybody. There is no punishment. It is not punishment for the adoption of technology.

Bill C-32 (40th Parliament, 3rd Session) committee  No, sir, it is not. Broadcasters are no more being punished by those who create music than they're being punished by those who write software for its use.

Bill C-32 (40th Parliament, 3rd Session) committee  Absolutely. They could avoid the reproduction royalty by not making reproductions. But I'll tell you something; since the tariff was introduced, not a single radio station has gone back from using copies. They know perfectly well that there are costs incumbent upon making those c

Bill C-32 (40th Parliament, 3rd Session) committee  Of course they do.

Bill C-32 (40th Parliament, 3rd Session) committee  As they should.

Bill C-32 (40th Parliament, 3rd Session) committee  Mr. Cardin, what you are referring to is sometimes called syndicated programming or packaged programming. There is some programming like that. The majority of stations basically run music most of the time and produce their own programming. The important point is that the licence

Bill C-32 (40th Parliament, 3rd Session) committee  No, sir, that is not what I said. Broadcasters pay SOCAN. They pay CSI. They pay the collectives that represent record producers and performers, namely AVLA and SOPROQ. What I am suggesting--

Bill C-32 (40th Parliament, 3rd Session) committee  I'm suggesting that this bill would allow the broadcasters to not pay for the reproduction of songs and sound recordings.

Bill C-32 (40th Parliament, 3rd Session) committee  They presently pay for the right to perform and the right to reproduce that music.

Bill C-32 (40th Parliament, 3rd Session) committee  No, sir, that is not my argument.

Bill C-32 (40th Parliament, 3rd Session) committee  No. There have been questions as to economic impact. If you want to go straight to the point, the copies have value. The amount of value is determined by the Copyright Board. We can debate all day whether it's a lot or a little. The bottom line is that those who create music have