International Trade committee  If we start with the understanding that there is no agreement for disclosing information and that we're dealing with a country seen as one of the largest sources of money laundering in the world, and we sign such an agreement, we would be sending a message internationally that Canada is becoming a funnel for laundered drug money.

International Trade committee  Exactly, because we would be dealing with legalization and an ever-increasing openness to highly proven methods of money laundering, such as making legal investments with money that basically isn't. This is how money laundering works.

International Trade committee  I can add something about this political problem. Funds that escape taxation are not just sitting on exotic islands far away, or in countries like Panama. These funds are being put to use and mixed with the proceeds of crime. A French judge, Jean de Maillard, said that, these days, we no longer distinguish between legal and illegal economy, since they are mixed together.

International Trade committee  I heard the question. First, on the matter of bank secrecy, which is quite central when we're talking about tax havens: for people who skirt the rules of law, this involves hiding. Of course, no one is going to come to us and say that they are trying to benefit from tax havens—

International Trade committee  Can I finish?

International Trade committee  Mr. Chair, can I please finish? By definition—

International Trade committee  Yes. I don't know if that's a question or a reprimand.

International Trade committee  By definition, tax havens involve hiding information and assets from a rule of law, shielding activities or accountability from the place where the activities are being carried out. So, you say that so many people are for it; but what I have noticed is that so many people are completely unaware of what a free trade agreement between Canada and Panama would really mean.

International Trade committee  I would like to finish. Can I finish just one of my sentences?

International Trade committee  Otherwise, the big problems that will surface in terms of tax havens and the issue of such an agreement are that there will be significant losses in collective wealth because tax evasion, tax leakage and audacious tax practices will continue. So, at this point, there is reason to be against it, not to mention all the problems related to bi-directional money laundering in both jurisdictions.

International Trade committee  Since we don't have much time, I was speaking quickly. My apologies to the translators. Still referring to the work of Marie-Christine Dupuis-Danon, I would like to add that Panama is open to the network of international tax havens where, as we know, about half of the world's flow of funds goes.

International Trade committee  Thank you. My name is Alain Deneault. I am a researcher at the Chaire mondialisation, citoyenneté et démocratie of the Université du Québec in Montreal and I am also the author of the book Offshore: Paradis fiscaux et souveraineté criminelle. My work tackles the issue of tax havens not only from the perspective of accounting, taxation, criminology or economy, but also from the global perspective of political thought, where all these areas come together.