Human Resources committee  It is confusing to try to understand it, because the theory of how the social impact bond is going to work is that the risk lies with the person raising the money, like Goldman Sachs, for example. Because they are raising this money, they expect a return on their investment. They

Human Resources committee  That's just charity; that's not social finance.

Human Resources committee  It's an interesting question. Maybe small community economic development, as Andrew said. What I tend to look at when I'm looking at social finance is what safeguards there would be to make sure our worst fears would be less likely to happen. I'd be more interested in making sur

Human Resources committee  I'll use a concrete example of employment services for people who are on welfare. That's a common example. What happens is that companies such as Jobs Now and others tend to accept only people who have been unemployed for less than a certain period of time. They don't take the lo

Human Resources committee  No, but I do have the names of three experts in England that I'd like to share with you, if you indeed decide to go. We've been corresponding with experts on this in England and we would be happy to provide you with these names.

Human Resources committee  It costs more because the company is making a profit, but in fact—

Human Resources committee  The wages people are making—

Human Resources committee  No, much lower.

Human Resources committee  JobsNow also delivers in British Columbia. It's a kind of privatized employment delivery system, so I feel slightly reticent. I could confirm these numbers with you in evidence and I could get back to you. It could be as much as half less in terms of—

Human Resources committee  These are modest wages. They're not high wages that the not-for-profit or municipal government employee is making. When it becomes pay for performance, which is what happens with the social impact bond, the actual individuals working are getting paid for performance, and their wa

Human Resources committee  Yes, absolutely.

Human Resources committee  Social impact bonds are sort of social finance on steroids, and that's what we've been cautioning you about. At the smaller level, we actually have an infographic that we could share with you. It's all on a continuum. There are a lot of incredibly great local endeavours that ha

Human Resources committee  Basically, our concern about doing that is that the government is still paying that return at the end because there is an attachment of how much money you get back on the so-called bond at the end. The government is still paying, but in many cases—in fact, Andrew referred to one

Human Resources committee  Hi, my name is Margot Young. I'm representing CUPE today, the Canadian Union of Public Employees. We have more than 630,000 members in the broader public sector. We have been following this issue as it started to emerge. That's why we are happy to share with you what we've learne