Finance committee  Well, I'd have to see some research on the amount of emissions associated with that and the overall impact, and the various purposes the CCA is being been put to. I would like to think we'd be consistent across sectors, but we've done exhaustive research on the oil, coal, and gas sectors and the relationship between these subsidies and their relative need.

Finance committee  Well, once again, I would refer you to the research conducted by the International Institute for Sustainable Development, where that's laid out in some detail. According to a recommendation of the Green Budget Coalition, the Canadian exploration expense allows companies to deduct 100% of their exploration expenses from their income tax each year.

Finance committee  We're here, as I explained earlier, principally because we're concerned about the potentially catastrophic implications of runaway climate change. We'd like to see policies put in place that discourage a reliance and ongoing dependence on fossil fuels and that encourage energy efficiency, renewable energy, and energy conservation.

Finance committee  Well, that's like asking the Canadian Association of Petroleum Producers how many members they have. They would answer that in terms--

Finance committee  “Climate change is a bigger threat than terrorism” is on our website? That hasn't come to my attention.

Finance committee  It sounded like that was more than one question. I think it's fair to say that measures were taken in 2007 and 2011 to reduce some fossil fuel subsidies. I think it's also fair to say that if you look at the research that the International Institute for Sustainable Development did last year, an exhaustive analysis done out of their Geneva office—

Finance committee  Finance Canada, in a memo to Minister Flaherty about 18 months ago, along with the IISD study, identified the Canadian exploration expense, the Canadian development expense and, to a lesser degree, flowthrough shares, and tax depreciation rates for oil sands leases, and the accelerated capital cost allowance for the mining sector.

Finance committee  I'm aware that the oil sands are a significant factor in our economy. I'm also aware that if we had a billion dollars to spend to meet the needs of Canadians, the oil companies may not be the neediest of those Canadians.

Finance committee  Well, we're essentially a trade association among member organizations.

Finance committee  They would answer that in terms of the number of companies that are part of their association. So when we're asked who are members are, we answer it in terms of the members. How many members does the United Church of Canada have? How many members does the Assembly of First Nations have?

Finance committee  We have 75 member organizations. Our members are counted as organizations.

Finance committee  I personally have not been to Fort McMurray.

Finance committee  Certainly when I look at the implications of runaway, catastrophic climate change, and if I take the scientists at their words in terms of the hundreds of millions of lives at stake and the billion livelihoods that are going to be undermined if we don't do our fair share--

Finance committee  Raise money? No.

Finance committee  We think there has been an effort over the past 25 years to try to integrate environmental and social conditions into free trade agreements. We think they have historically not gone nearly far enough and that there has been a tendency for those trade agreements to trump legitimate environmental and social concerns.