Subcommittee on International Human Rights committee  No, what I was saying was that our association had developed a program that is now globally recognized. It's a program that we, in Canada, developed and that is now being adopted by other countries. It's recognized as the best in the world.

Subcommittee on International Human Rights committee  The program has produced results here, in Canada.

Subcommittee on International Human Rights committee  The program is brand new internationally, being implemented only recently.

Subcommittee on International Human Rights committee  Outcomes will be published this year for Finland, the first country to adopt the program.

Subcommittee on International Human Rights committee  There is a very thin distinction between the two when it exists.

Subcommittee on International Human Rights committee  —an arm of the state.

Subcommittee on International Human Rights committee  Yes, that's right.

Subcommittee on International Human Rights committee  I don't know, Ben, if you want to speak to this one. I am somewhat familiar with the Nevsun case. They were not a member of ours, but it's a very well-known one. The response, which Nevsun undertook once the issue became so high profile, was to do their due diligence. Today, com

Subcommittee on International Human Rights committee  Our association represents 45 companies that operate in Canada. Not all of them are Canadian companies. I cannot say whether any of our Canadian members have committed crimes in other countries. Naturally, even in Canada, when a company is responsible for environmental violations

Subcommittee on International Human Rights committee  No, quite the contrary, I think if you take a more collaborative approach, you're more likely to get people to sit down and—

Subcommittee on International Human Rights committee  I guess we just have to agree to disagree.

Subcommittee on International Human Rights committee  We are basing our position on the experience of others who have done this. Canada's not the first in the world to consider an ombudsman.

Subcommittee on International Human Rights committee  We certainly hear a lot of different stories about Chinese operations in Africa, for example. They bring in their own workers. They bring in their own workers in Ecuador. Sometimes these workers are prisoners. They bring their prisoners to work in the mines. Their practices in en

Subcommittee on International Human Rights committee  Well, John, I've also given you this answer before, but I can do it again. I also gave it in my testimony. First of all, you describe a court process. We don't see this as a court process. There are courts, and people have access to courts, and there are rules that courts fol

Subcommittee on International Human Rights committee  Unless I misunderstood you, I think you just supported my position.