Natural Resources committee  Let me try to take a slightly different approach to that. In India you can build a million-barrel-a-day refinery, which they're doing today. They have a local market that supports that refinery. There are profits from that local market—it's close by. So they build the profitabili

Natural Resources committee  It's a heavy oil that's exported. It's blended with diluent or synthetic crude to allow it to flow. It doesn't have sand in it, for example.

Natural Resources committee  No.

Natural Resources committee  It has to be blended with something else, so it's blended with a condensate.

Natural Resources committee  That's correct.

Natural Resources committee  Well, some of it will come out of, say, refineries; it's a light end product out of a refinery.

Natural Resources committee  You make a very good point. There's an enormous amount of labour and technology involved in extracting bitumen and putting it in a form that can be placed in a pipeline and transported.

Natural Resources committee  I wouldn't even want to try to take a guess at that—

Natural Resources committee  —because I don't know. I'm here to represent refining.

Natural Resources committee  What I will say is that our biggest challenge in Suncor in the next five years.... We have a growth plan. Today, in fact, our upgrading of bitumen into synthetic crudes is pretty much balanced with our extraction of raw bitumen. We are a big upgrading company. We will produce mor

Natural Resources committee  Absolutely.

Natural Resources committee  I'm not here to speak for the other companies. I'm really not here to speak for Rick either. He is on record for—

Natural Resources committee  We sure do. In fact, diesel is probably the one we're most concerned about, because it has a tolerance of only 15 parts per million of sulphur delivered into the customer's tank. We actually produce diesel at our sites with probably around five parts per million of sulphur. We

Natural Resources committee  Yes. In fact, our current CEO, Rick George—who, as most people are aware, is stepping down in May, but he is still our CEO—has been quite vocal on the subject and very supportive of a national energy strategy. I think what he would say is that it needs to go beyond energy produc

Natural Resources committee  Let me just talk about Suncor's experience here. Previous to that, of course, we merged with Petro-Canada a few years back and with what the Petro-Canada experience was. The Oakville closure was brought up. That was a refinery in Oakville, Ontario. It came down in 2005. That was