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Public Accounts committee  My comments are not about the public servants themselves. My comments are about the fact that I believe there is a culture problem that contributed to this. Again, yes, I agree with you on the two fundamental decision points that were the most obvious, that people could have iden

June 19th, 2018Committee meeting

Michael Ferguson

Public Accounts committee  Again, it isn't the public service that I'm trying to say is broken. It's that we are making them operate in a culture that can cause these types of incomprehensible failures. I certainly believe that our civil servants—the people who work here—are second to none, but we also hav

June 19th, 2018Committee meeting

Michael Ferguson

Public Accounts committee  Again, what I said in the message is that I think the short tenure of deputy ministers contributes to these types of problems. Yes, you can look at an average, but an average can cover up a lot of issues, but when you look at Public Services and Procurement Canada now, with the c

June 19th, 2018Committee meeting

Michael Ferguson

Public Accounts committee  It depends on the project. It is not the same person for all the projects.

June 19th, 2018Committee meeting

Michael Ferguson

Public Accounts committee  Once again, no responsibility was directly defined in the project flow chart. In my opinion, at the beginning of the project, it would have been important to decide who was responsible for approving the implementation of the project. However, there was no documentation related to

June 19th, 2018Committee meeting

Michael Ferguson

Public Accounts committee  Again, that's trying to impute intention to people, which is not something I can do. We would not have seen anything that indicated it was intentional, so that's as far as I can tell you. It did not happen, and I can't point to anything that indicated it was intentional.

June 19th, 2018Committee meeting

Michael Ferguson

Public Accounts committee  , A very important step, a normal step in the case of an information technology project or new IT system being put into place, is that final sign-off. Well, in this particular instance, we couldn't find the documentation of that final sign-off. In the end, the only thing you can

June 19th, 2018Committee meeting

Michael Ferguson

Public Accounts committee  I certainly don't believe that anybody would have launched this system if they really knew the mess it was going to end up being. I think they should have identified and known the size of that problem, with the issues that were known to them. But, again, there would be nothing t

June 19th, 2018Committee meeting

Michael Ferguson

Public Accounts committee  I'm not sure if there was one person who communicated it, but certainly they were getting enough messages and hearing enough issues that they felt they needed to have the report done.

June 19th, 2018Committee meeting

Michael Ferguson

Public Accounts committee  I don't know the specifics of that. I don't know whether we had that in the course of the audit. It wouldn't have been something that we needed to know. All we needed to know was that the Gartner report was commissioned.

June 19th, 2018Committee meeting

Michael Ferguson

Public Accounts committee  We'll do that.

June 19th, 2018Committee meeting

Michael Ferguson

Public Accounts committee  Again, that's not something I can speak to specifically. I think the deputy minister has mentioned some of that in the past, but that wasn't critical to the audit we did.

June 19th, 2018Committee meeting

Michael Ferguson

Public Accounts committee  Again, that's something the department would have to tell you. It was not information that we needed to look at to get to our opinions on the audit.

June 19th, 2018Committee meeting

Michael Ferguson

Public Accounts committee  I don't know that, specifically. I think the deputy minister referred to—and you'd have to go back and double check this—the fact that that type of compensation was not given in the year of the launch of Phoenix. I'm only going by memory on that, you'd have to refer back to her t

June 19th, 2018Committee meeting

Michael Ferguson

Public Accounts committee  Yes, you're right.

June 19th, 2018Committee meeting

Michael Ferguson