Public Safety committee  I'm going to have to take a different approach from my friends. I think it has to be agnostic, because who's going to set the countries? We've already seen, for example, in the foreign interference inquiry, that the countries named were China, Russia and Iran, and, in the proceedings, we found out that India is actually by far the second-largest foreign interferer in Canada, and yet it was left out to further our international relations with it.

Public Safety committee  I can tell you that the community much appreciated the Prime Minister's statement in September, and it was farther than we've seen any prime minister go. Are we completely satisfied with the record? As I said in my statements in 2017, according to The Bureau article, this network operating out of Vancouver that was targeting Sikhs was not cracked down on as a result of not wanting to endanger Canada-India relations, so these things have irked us for the past 40 years, but I mean, credit where credit is due: The Prime Minister's statement was really a turning point for our community here.

Public Safety committee  I gave you the example of the Ottawa protest from March 2023. This was, by all accounts, a peaceful protest, but when you have accusations of grenades being thrown, how is that going to affect individuals who want to come and protest? I mean, is this opening it up to foreign governments basically threatening or throwing the sink at these dissenting communities and hoping something sticks?

Public Safety committee  I'll go back to the initial point I made, which is the fact that international relations can play a role. We need to take a look at that. I know that in England, they have a two-tier system, and you can pick countries of more concern and less concern. I don't agree with that approach.

Public Safety committee  I think it would be better if it were not at the whim of cabinet. Yes.

Public Safety committee  Yes. I'll touch on a couple of the points you've raised. First, we know that this channel is open between Canada and India. Now, India is notoriously bad when it comes to respecting human rights. We've seen the transnational repression that's taken place, including killings on Canadian soil.

Public Safety committee  Once again, touching back on your initial point about the intelligence sharing, the intelligence-sharing framework itself names a number of so-called extremist groups. It names two Sikh groups that are, as far as I can tell, completely defunct. I haven't seen any actions by them.

Public Safety committee  Briefly, I can tell you that India uses foreign-based or Canada-based proxies. There are usually different layers. In practical terms, getting to where the orders are coming from is often a challenge. Do I have a solution? No, I don't, but you're quite right that there are different layers.

Public Safety committee  I'll just add that this could potentially be a double-edged sword. We definitely, as a community, need to know more when there are threats against members of our community. Right now, like I said, these individuals who have duties to warn are completely in the dark. They have no idea who's threatening them and what the level of that threat is.

Public Safety committee  Good afternoon. My name is Balpreet Singh. I serve as legal counsel for the World Sikh Organization of Canada, which is also known as the WSO. The first week of June is a particularly sombre time for Sikhs, as we remember the 1984 Sikh genocide and the Indian government's brutal attack on the Darbar Sahib complex and approximately 70 other gurdwaras across Punjab.

Justice committee  What we're seeing are concocted charges. India is an outlier in the fact that putting up a poster or graffiti outside of your own home, in fact, is now being cracked down on. For example, people have been arrested for writing “Khalistan” on the walls of their own homes. Having said that, these individuals aren't necessarily charged with [Technical difficulty—Editor].

Justice committee  Not just ratifying.... For example, it has ratified the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights. The fact is that for over 20 years it has neglected its obligations and reporting requirements under the ICCPR, so just signing it is not enough. There has to be a demonstrable adherence to those norms.

Justice committee  Of course. Any country that demonstrates that it is adhering to human rights norms should be a country that we can consider entering into these things with. Now, of course, what we are submitting is not just about India. We're talking about the whole extradition process, which needs serious reforms.

Justice committee  That's right. I would suggest that meeting the obligations underneath the treaty, for example, reporting obligations and, where you have the convention against torture, having the Committee against Torture doing the reviews.... Unfortunately, we feel that, even if there were a ratification, there would be a bar on the UN Committee against Torture doing the reviews.

Justice committee  Absolutely, I would suggest that there needs to be a regular review of our treaties. We need to make sure that the countries we have these treaties with are living up to their obligations under the treaties. Like I said, India is a signatory to but has not ratified the torture convention.