Citizenship and Immigration committee  Just to kind of transmit the feeling of how severe it can be, if someone were to come to you and say that our Canadian soldiers who have come back from Afghanistan and are traumatized are lying, are manipulating, that in fact it's not a big deal to go to Afghanistan, you would feel hurt.

Citizenship and Immigration committee  I think it's exactly the same thing. What we want to convey, beyond partisanship or politics, is how can we make people understand and feel what these people have been going through, the people who have been traumatized. It is the same as our boys in Afghanistan. These people are traumatized.

Citizenship and Immigration committee  Canada is the only country to have a reservation for the Convention of the Rights of the Child, and this is usually unknown. Do you know that? Do you know what the reservation is?

Citizenship and Immigration committee  Do you know what the reservation is?

Citizenship and Immigration committee  I would say that we do not totally respect the convention we have signed.

Citizenship and Immigration committee  In the current system, we have a mean of 600 children currently detained each year in Canada. I would say that if you look at the changes in different countries of the European Union, people have moved away from child detention. There are family-friendly alternatives, where you can have a certain control and a sense of knowing where people are by having them report, which is a very good alternative for handling families in those situations.

Citizenship and Immigration committee  We are in the process.... I don't want to mislead you, but, for example, with a child who develops concentration problems, learning problems, and drops out of his studies, we have calculated that the cost is around $200,000 for Canadian society. That's extremely important. We will calculate the cost of insufficient prenatal care and stress during pregnancy, because we know this affects kids.

Citizenship and Immigration committee  We think that both on the adult side and on the child side, if there were an amendment it would be about people who are vulnerable and are going to suffer long-term consequences. Some people should not have to suffer detention, because they will become more vulnerable. We certainly include children up to the age of 18, pregnant women, and asylum seekers who are vulnerable because they have a severe physical or mental illness.

Citizenship and Immigration committee  That would be our main recommendation. We think the government should consult the association of pediatricians, the association of child psychiatrists, and Public Health in all Canadian cities. They are involved. They told us today that they are on board. They would be very willing to provide any advice to the government.

Citizenship and Immigration committee  Maybe I'll answer the issue of the separation from parents. We have very ancient knowledge about separation from parents to protect children from war. It began with the London bombing in the Second World War, with children being evacuated from London and separated from their parents doing far worse than those who stayed with their parents during the bombing of London.

Citizenship and Immigration committee  --to preserve the best interests of children, and to protect them. Thank you.

Citizenship and Immigration committee  I am Cécile Rousseau, professor of psychiatry at McGill. There is strong evidence in the scientific literature in our research on children—which is a separate research area—and also in our clinical practice in the last 20 years that detention has strong and pervasive effects on children's mental health.