Natural Resources committee  I'll have to collect the numbers and get back to you.

Natural Resources committee  Just to be clear, I said that the expenses or the investment required in hydrogen infrastructure is not a showstopper.

Natural Resources committee  It is not. It is very difficult to really say which one is more difficult. Both in natural gas and hydrogen, we are talking about gaseous fuels, so the challenges are quite similar. To your question of whether society will be able to invest in both natural gas infrastructure and hydrogen infrastructure, for us, hydrogen has the huge benefit that at the end of the day it's really a clean zero-emission technology.

Natural Resources committee  Overall, Daimler has invested approximately €1.5 billion in the development of hydrogen fuel cell technology over the last 17 years. That is substantial. Just in our operations here in the Vancouver area, we are spending approximately $40 million to $50 million every year on this technology, plus the investment that happens in Germany for Daimler and in Japan for Nissan.

Natural Resources committee  As we said before, the Canadian government has some programs running. We currently have an SDTC contribution of 22% to that one project that was $11.5 million from 2010 to 2013.

Natural Resources committee  Absolutely, it's not the government's job. What he also said in the very beginning was that the car companies are working on all the different technologies because they have their specific applications. Customers will choose them according to their special needs. The only thing government should make sure of is that there is a level playing field for the various technologies by not picking one above another.

Natural Resources committee  As far as I'm aware here, NRC has, in the reorganization and restructuring, put fuel cells very much on the back burner. The NRC's IFCI, Institute for Fuel Cell Innovation, which used to be here in Vancouver, has redefined its priorities and its scope, so there is not a lot of fuel cell research going on any more here in Vancouver.

Natural Resources committee  What are you referring to?

Natural Resources committee  Frankly, I have to pass there. I'm not aware of them. Where are they based?

Natural Resources committee  In Queen's. Oh, sorry.

Natural Resources committee  No, it's not of the Queen, the person, sorry.

Natural Resources committee  We still have a lot of joint projects going on within the Canadian fuel cell community, if you like, between university and research organizations on analysis and simulation. They are a partner in that. I can't tell you right off the top of my head which projects we are doing with them, but there is still a good network existing with some of the research institutions in Canada.

Natural Resources committee  The automotive industry has been extremely well positioned for over 125 years in all kinds of metal machining. We are perfect in grinding, cutting, and stamping. We have no experience and nothing has been done in dealing with thin membranes, putting black ink on top of all that, and that's an area where it's not only about having a machine and adapting the machine to higher volumes, but also about working on the processes of how you apply that black ink.

Natural Resources committee  That's exactly the point I was raising. I think Canada is at risk of losing that leading role. Why are Daimler, Ford, and Nissan coming to Vancouver? It is not because the weather is so nice; right now it's raining again. It is because there is the level of expertise and there are universities and similar companies here that really allow us to develop that technology in the best way.

Natural Resources committee  Yes, if I may, I can start with this. The infrastructure has a few technical issues on production and distribution that we have to tackle. There are many ways to generate hydrogen, which are in general known, but you really have to perfect these so they work for regular customers.