Information & Ethics committee  I think your question is very appropriate. We've heard already from organizations that this is the last year we're having this dinner, a dinner we've had for 14 years, because we just can't get people to buy tables; people can't buy tables because they don't think they can invite the people who work in government who they want to invite; this is why we do this dinner in Ottawa instead of Toronto or Montreal.

Information & Ethics committee  I think the first place to start on this question is that approaching government and petitioning government is a right, not a privilege. I don't think any legislative measure or any bureaucratic decision within the public service should try to remove that right from people. Trying to shape the lobbying activities to conform with a legislative and regulatory framework is the prerogative of Parliament and its officers, and we recommend to our members that they follow all of that regime.

Information & Ethics committee  We're sensitive to the commissioner's concerns here. Anything that allows any officer of Parliament to ensure an accurate public record is worth considering. Right now, under the letter of the act, MPs and senators are prohibited from disclosing or publicizing requests for investigations on breaches of the act by another MP or senator.

Information & Ethics committee  You have the two acts, and under one you get the strongly worded letter from the Commissioner of Lobbying and your name is put on a report to Parliament, and under the other I think you're looking at $200,000 and—

Information & Ethics committee  You need to bear in mind that for a professional lobbyist, it's a one-day news story, but the reputational aspect is that someone has then had their name put in a report to Parliament.

Information & Ethics committee  I'll talk about the Lobbying Act first. This committee recommended a complete ban. We haven't seen that come in. The government seemed to endorse that in its response, and I guess we'll wait to see the legislative amendments when they come forward. With respect to the Conflict of Interest Act, we noted the framework around gifts—there is the guidelines document and so forth—and there isn't an express prohibition.

Information & Ethics committee  I think yours will be very good.

Information & Ethics committee  I think what you want to eliminate is the opportunity for regulatory comparison shopping. I had a young man come in my office one day looking to move out of government into the private sector. I said, “You worked for a minister within the last few years.” He responded: “Yes, but I worked in the constituency office.

Information & Ethics committee  We weren't hiring at the time, so it was a moot point. But it made me uncomfortable that one person could go shopping for the answer he wanted from different officers of Parliament based on the same set of facts. We've seen other more publicized cases than that where designated public office holders—and there's no question that they were designated police office holders....

Information & Ethics committee  Yes, we noted earlier recommendations from previous witnesses that you should be examining a sliding scale based on the actual job that somebody had and how long they had it, instead of a one-size-fits-all cooling-off period for everyone, or a series of one-size cooling-off periods for everyone.

Information & Ethics committee  That's right.

Information & Ethics committee  Well, there's not much more I think I'll say than I've already said, that it's really up to you to decide what you feel unduly influences you. If one gets to know somebody and feels comfortable enough with them to take their advice or to ask them a question on an issue, there's a level of influence there.

Information & Ethics committee  First of all we think that increased transparency is always good and that an absolute prohibition isn't always necessary to achieve transparency. This committee recommended a complete ban on gifts to public office holders under the Lobbying Act, and the government seemed to agree in its response to your report.

Information & Ethics committee  Okay. Is it the value of a lunch? Is it a ticket to a fundraiser? Is it a ticket to a hockey game? That has to start with you yourselves. This is one of those rare opportunities where a parliamentary committee is examining rules that apply first and foremost to itself rather than to common folk.

Information & Ethics committee  In conclusion, GRIC reiterates that, by virtue of the this committee's ongoing review of the Conflict of Interest Act, and your upcoming review of legislative amendments to the Lobbying Act, you have an excellent opportunity to ensure that the two statutes work together, and not at cross-purposes.